(04-25-2021, 04:14 AM)Ymarsakar Wrote: "The only thing I'll say about the choral metaphor is that choirs almost always have conductors leading them."

Hehe, the anchor.

(04-25-2021, 07:48 AM)Patrick Wrote:

(04-25-2021, 04:14 AM)Ymarsakar Wrote: "The only thing I'll say about the choral metaphor is that choirs almost always have conductors leading them."

Hehe, the anchor.

The One Infinite Creator...

(04-25-2021, 02:38 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: I leave it to you and other readers to ponder whether centralized direction is the fourth density ideal or not.

(04-25-2021, 05:34 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:

(04-25-2021, 02:38 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: I leave it to you and other readers to ponder whether centralized direction is the fourth density ideal or not.

On the other hand, this could be a false dichotomy.  4D is about love, right?  So, the ideal, then, would be whichever was most loving in its own context.  QED
 

(04-25-2021, 07:49 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote: True, my friend. It's a false dichotomy from certain points of view. The point is to stop paying attention to the limitations of third density and to aspire for greater freedom and curiosity. I'm placing an overly heavy emphasis on it to make a point: that LLR is not essential to seeking. If I had realized this earlier, I might have saved friendships and relationships I regret losing.

Quote:It is not a cruel creation. The harmonies are sometimes difficult to understand.

LoO Wrote:42.18 Questioner: Then in attempting to reproduce this experience would I then best follow practices for the Order of the Golden Dawn in reproducing this?

Ra: I am Ra. To attempt to reproduce an initiatory experience is to move, shall we say, backwards. However, the practice of this form of service to others is appropriate in your case working with your associates. It is not well for positively polarized entities to work singly. The reasons for this are obvious.

(04-26-2021, 07:27 AM)Patrick Wrote: Without your mirrors you can't see what you're doing. You also cannot work with the self in others without working with others.

(04-26-2021, 05:40 AM)Louisabell Wrote: I wonder if there eventually comes a point where (in keeping with the analogy) we all must learn to sing with the choir. And perhaps both fate and the inner felt Logoic call towards our evolution will lead us there, whether we are consciously aware of it or not.

I can't deny that the potential for shared reality in a polarized group is enticing.

This below quote always makes me feel like the kid in class that is falling behind and can no longer keep up.

LoO Wrote:42.18 Questioner: Then in attempting to reproduce this experience would I then best follow practices for the Order of the Golden Dawn in reproducing this?

Ra: I am Ra. To attempt to reproduce an initiatory experience is to move, shall we say, backwards. However, the practice of this form of service to others is appropriate in your case working with your associates. It is not well for positively polarized entities to work singly. The reasons for this are obvious.

Well, these reasons are not so obvious to me. Why is it not well for STO selves to work singly? Ideas?

(04-26-2021, 08:39 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote:

(04-26-2021, 05:40 AM)Louisabell Wrote: Well, these reasons are not so obvious to me. Why is it not well for STO selves to work singly? Ideas?

Protection

(04-26-2021, 08:55 AM)Louisabell Wrote:

(04-26-2021, 08:39 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote:

(04-26-2021, 05:40 AM)Louisabell Wrote: Well, these reasons are not so obvious to me. Why is it not well for STO selves to work singly? Ideas?

Protection

Yes, that fits... seems kinda obvious to me now, haha. Thank you

(04-26-2021, 05:40 AM)Louisabell Wrote: I wonder if there eventually comes a point where (in keeping with the analogy) we all must learn to sing with the choir.

LoO Wrote:42.18 Questioner: Then in attempting to reproduce this experience would I then best follow practices for the Order of the Golden Dawn in reproducing this?

Ra: I am Ra. To attempt to reproduce an initiatory experience is to move, shall we say, backwards. However, the practice of this form of service to others is appropriate in your case working with your associates. It is not well for positively polarized entities to work singly. The reasons for this are obvious.

Well, these reasons are not so obvious to me. Why is it not well for STO selves to work singly? Ideas?

Quote:However, to one who has indeed cast aside arrogance, the voice of spirit becomes quite audible and there is a liveness of interchange that is not possible while the egoic structure of the personality shell retains its knowledge of its self-sufficiency.

We speak as if there is a “we” and a “they,” a “you” and an “I.” And this is not precisely correct. For there is an ever-flowing movement of energy along lines of force which are created by your thoughts and feelings rather than there being a dynamic of two.

You are experiencing ways of structuring the self so that it may be known to the self. We do not wish to take away every structure of your thoughts in an instant. Rather, we would that you would conceive of this journey as a dance. It is a dance in which your movements express a gradual increase in your ability to be naked and without personality.

In the privacy and the intimacy of your silent meditation, allow all to fall away as it will and sit with that which is left until it, too, falls away. And then sit with that which is left until it, too, falls away. Repeat this process until when you sit, you simply sit.

(04-26-2021, 05:40 AM)Louisabell Wrote: I wonder if there eventually comes a point where (in keeping with the analogy) we all must learn to sing with the choir. And perhaps both fate and the inner felt Logoic call towards our evolution will lead us there, whether we are consciously aware of it or not.

I can't deny that the potential for shared reality in a polarized group is enticing.

This below quote always makes me feel like the kid in class that is falling behind and can no longer keep up.

LoO Wrote:42.18 Questioner: Then in attempting to reproduce this experience would I then best follow practices for the Order of the Golden Dawn in reproducing this?

Ra: I am Ra. To attempt to reproduce an initiatory experience is to move, shall we say, backwards. However, the practice of this form of service to others is appropriate in your case working with your associates. It is not well for positively polarized entities to work singly. The reasons for this are obvious.

Well, these reasons are not so obvious to me. Why is it not well for STO selves to work singly? Ideas?

(04-26-2021, 05:40 AM)Louisabell Wrote: Well, these reasons are not so obvious to me. Why is it not well for STO selves to work singly? Ideas?

Hatonn Wrote:At one point in your evolution, my friends, you were at the farthest point from the central source, which we call Creator for want of another word. There was nothing behind and nothing in front of you, when you began your travel. As you moved toward that great light, that great central sun, light is before you and darkness behind you. Wisdom before you and ignorance behind you. Those who wish to gain power may gain it in one of two ways—by aiding and abetting that journey towards the light which is called good, or by, shall we say, applying the brakes [in] progress and attempting to reenter that portion of the cycle [which has already been] which is called evil.

If you can understand that at the end of your journey, when you are without [motion,] there will be no good or evil. It may help you (inaudible) [combat ]that which you see as evil at this point. The principle which drives those who are vibrating in what you would call the evil range is that of separation. They are attempting to separate themselves from the great central source. They are attempting to become more and more individualized, thereby shutting themselves off from power and love of the creation. The type of power that this generates is similar to that which is generated by the applying of brakes in one of your automobiles. It is a friction which generates a good deal of heat. Because this power is so obvious in being seen and felt, and because power in and of itself is admired on planet Earth, many vibrate in the direction of evil, for they can see that they are powerful. Those who attempt to accelerate towards the good are deliberately giving up more and more of their individuality and taking on more and more of the love and power of that central sun source. (my emphasis)

Quote:18.5 Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”

Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.

All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.

It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.

(04-26-2021, 04:07 PM)Spaced Wrote: I think that people get caught up on the idea of giving up individuality as it sounds like you are being asked to repress elements of the self. Repression is actually counterproductive to that goal. A better way to go about it is to indulge in one's desires and balance the experience within in order to see if they are in alignment with one's true being.

…

As the mind complex is distilled through the athanor of the body over many lifetimes it becomes purified and sheds distortion. 

(04-27-2021, 02:32 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote: I was suggesting that, as one polarizes, "that which is not needed falls away".  What falls away is not our uniqueness, but the contrived aspects of our yellow ray complex. The less contrived our identity is, the less being a self becomes a push against the masses and the more it becomes a dance of give and take with the Creator. The goal is not to always win for the self and never lose anything for the self, but to toss the tally sheet aside entirely as the true goal becomes one's place in the Creation and not something for and by oneself. As Patrick said, you don't stop being you, but you do open up to the fullness of you instead of the "socially useful you" that we are so invested in protecting.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. . . . Speaking to the intention of your question, the best way for each seeker in third density to be of service to others is unique to that mind/body/spirit complex. This means that the mind/body/spirit complex must then seek within itself the intelligence of its own discernment as to the way it may best serve other-selves. This will be different for each. There is no best. There is no generalization. Nothing is known.

(04-26-2021, 12:53 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote: I expect that, because the questioner was wholly new to swimming in this discipline, Ra was suggesting that he not just jump into the deep end of pool without helpful resources standing by.

(04-26-2021, 12:53 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote: This quote immediately above suggests to me that, in meditation, although one appears to be alone within, in another sense, in singing the song of one's deepest vibration, one's consciousness is, indeed, singing with all. 

(04-26-2021, 01:00 PM)Diana Wrote: So even when one is physically alone working, even when there is no actual in-person contact, one can still have the embracing energy of unity with others.

(04-26-2021, 01:23 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:

Hatonn Wrote:.... Those who attempt to accelerate towards the good are deliberately giving up more and more of their individuality and taking on more and more of the love and power of that central sun source. (my emphasis)

https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1978/1978_0809.aspx

I'd reason that this giving up of individuality on the positive path is what creates the level of power we need to be harvested. It might be possible to give up your individuality as a lone individual working on the self. But I imagine it's easier to dial it in when others are not only reflecting your progress back to you but also filling in the blanks of what the alternative identity might be which displaces individual identity. That would make letting go of the ego less scary, I'd think, but I could be mistaken.

(04-26-2021, 12:53 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Q'uo  https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0414.aspx

Quote:However, to one who has indeed cast aside arrogance, the voice of spirit becomes quite audible and there is a liveness of interchange that is not possible while the egoic structure of the personality shell retains its knowledge of its self-sufficiency.

 

(04-27-2021, 11:11 PM)Louisabell Wrote:

(04-26-2021, 01:00 PM)Diana Wrote: So even when one is physically alone working, even when there is no actual in-person contact, one can still have the embracing energy of unity with others.

Good point. However an Amazon seller isn't really an island unto themselves.  They are surrounded by a network of people who greatly enrich their mental social landscape, and so while the people in the seller's orbit do not appear in the flesh, they still effectuate catalytic action for the seller. I wonder how your analogy would apply, if possible, on the person stranded alone on an island?

(04-26-2021, 01:23 PM)rva_jeremy Wrote:

Hatonn Wrote:.... Those who attempt to accelerate towards the good are deliberately giving up more and more of their individuality and taking on more and more of the love and power of that central sun source. (my emphasis)

https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/1978/1978_0809.aspx

I'd reason that this giving up of individuality on the positive path is what creates the level of power we need to be harvested. It might be possible to give up your individuality as a lone individual working on the self. But I imagine it's easier to dial it in when others are not only reflecting your progress back to you but also filling in the blanks of what the alternative identity might be which displaces individual identity. That would make letting go of the ego less scary, I'd think, but I could be mistaken.

Interesting that Hatonn uses the term individuality. SF also quoted channeled material which used different terms to explain a similar thing, I think...

(04-26-2021, 12:53 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote: Q'uo  https://llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2006/2006_0414.aspx

Quote:However, to one who has indeed cast aside arrogance, the voice of spirit becomes quite audible and there is a liveness of interchange that is not possible while the egoic structure of the personality shell retains its knowledge of its self-sufficiency.

 

And yet none of these things can be said to be accurate in the absolute sense, when taken into account the definition of the unmanifested being as that being which exists and does its work without reference to or aid from other-selves.(71.5). So egoic structures are not truly self-sufficient in that they are referential by nature, and a "cultural concept of individuality" by its definition relies on culture. So, I don't see it so much as being a "leaving-behind" of self-sufficiency or individuality, but the lies we tell ourselves about these concepts.

How is there true individuality in the Law of One where all is the One Infinite Creator, and the pinnacle of seeking is to become the most humble servant of all (74.11)? And yet, each unmanifested self is unique (66.20). And so, to truly merge with one's other-selves while also retaining one's uniqueness, would require a large amount of light-strength and integrity, I would imagine. It could even be said that the difference of third density to fourth is that in third we are merged while not retaining our uniqueness or full awareness or full glory, and that this is the cause for much of the suffering we experience here. Maybe part of transitioning to fourth is the conscious realisation that we were unified all along, much more so than we could ever imagine, through the mass mind.

(04-27-2021, 11:11 PM)Louisabell Wrote: And yet none of these things can be said to be accurate in the absolute sense, when taken into account the definition of the unmanifested being as that being which exists and does its work without reference to or aid from other-selves.(71.5). So egoic structures are not truly self-sufficient in that they are referential by nature, and a "cultural concept of individuality" by its definition relies on culture. So, I don't see it so much as being a "leaving-behind" of self-sufficiency or individuality, but the lies we tell ourselves about these concepts.

(04-27-2021, 11:11 PM)Louisabell Wrote: How is there true individuality in the Law of One where all is the One Infinite Creator, and the pinnacle of seeking is to become the most humble servant of all (74.11)? And yet, each unmanifested self is unique (66.20). And so, to truly merge with one's other-selves while also retaining one's uniqueness, would require a large amount of light-strength and integrity, I would imagine. It could even be said that the difference of third density to fourth is that in third we are merged while not retaining our uniqueness or full awareness or full glory, and that this is the cause for much of the suffering we experience here. Maybe part of transitioning to fourth is the conscious realisation that we were unified all along, much more so than we could ever imagine, through the mass mind.

Hatonn Wrote:We do not promise heaven in the sense that meditation offers an easy street. For we have in our brotherhood worked upon the spiritual path for yet many more eons than you, yet within our ranks, because there always lies more than one path from one point to another, we have dissension and disagreement. We have discussion and argument. We are not without imperfections. We often do not see the total picture. It is simply that at least we are being honest in a way that we have gained by virtue of continued seeking. We are a little more in touch [with] who we are than your peoples. We have begun to see that we are all truly one in the Creator. Meditate, my friends. (Jeremy's emphasis)

(04-28-2021, 07:24 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: I believe in 4th density we can retain our unique qualities because we still have all of our unique experiences found in one's soul stream still with us the only difference being, is that we are not subject to linear time any longer and therefore our past and future is now the present moment. I do not think that we surrender our unique qualities until 7th density.

(04-28-2021, 07:24 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: I am noted for my laziness when adding a comment and I simply stated "protection" when later I thought, "self, it is also power along with protection and a blending of frequencies that produce a certian harmony for this type of work. You should have added that!"

(04-28-2021, 07:24 AM)Ohr Ein Sof Wrote: The man on an island alone, is he alone really? It may appear so but as we all have come to understand, appearances do not mean much when learning the truth. This human that sits on an island alone is always accompanied by his guides from cradle to death, The Creator and a collection of infinite sources.

(04-28-2021, 09:43 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: When I spoke of a "cultural concept of individuality" I was referring to scholarship I've read in the past that looked at identity through a historical and cultural lens. It's arguable that folks in earlier times did not have the same egoic concept that we do; indeed, the anthropology I've read suggests that before the humanist/rationalist advent of the Renaissance and Enlightenment, most people most of the time thought of themselves as members of a group or tribe first, and their individual agency flowed from this rather than the group flowing from personal commitment.

(04-28-2021, 09:43 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: The goal, if I'm not completely off the mark, is not to subsume the self in the collective so much as to understand one's uniqueness as a perfect fit with the collective, and therefore there is no need for conflict. We express our full, true individuality through our participation in the collective, and the more the Creator is moving through that increasingly transparent personality of ours, the more we discover our authentic selves and our authentic place in things.

(04-28-2021, 09:43 AM)rva_jeremy Wrote: I believe you are correct that it takes a great deal of light energy to maintain this vulnerability to others, and that that is the light energy we are building through processing catalyst, subtracting from our identities more and more of that which is not essential, and polarizing our ability to prosecute our heart's true desire as the biases reveal themselves.