(07-25-2015, 12:25 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I personally should be malnourished while I do eat meat. But I do give praise to the One Infinite Creator for the glorious taste of what I eat and so far my body seems to be doing quite well.

(07-25-2015, 01:04 PM)Monica Wrote:

(07-25-2015, 12:25 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Must have been hard to admit openly your wrongs, but it is an important step on the ever on-going path of growth.

I personally should be malnourished while I do eat meat. But I do give praise to the One Infinite Creator for the glorious taste of what I eat and so far my body seems to be doing quite well.

You didn't even look at those pics of malnourished vegans.

(07-25-2015, 01:06 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:

Monica Wrote:You didn't even look at those pics of malnourished vegans.

Good insight, having looked at them now I stand by my words.

(07-25-2015, 01:05 PM)Diana Wrote:

(07-25-2015, 12:25 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: I personally should be malnourished while I do eat meat. But I do give praise to the One Infinite Creator for the glorious taste of what I eat and so far my body seems to be doing quite well.

Why should you be malnourished? We each are responsible for the bodies we have. Why not feed your body optimal food? I do realize that for some, the amount of choice because of finances is limited. But with every situation, there would be some choice. For instance, buying a completely dead and nutritionally worthless (not to mention the aspects of supporting bad corporate practices) MacDonald's hamburger and French fries, versus buying nutritionally dense kale, a bag of carrots and some quinoa.   

The human body will on its own maintain good health until metabolism accumulates waste and damage and cells mutate. So if you are not feeding your body well, you won't notice it for a long while. If you are still in your twenties, abuse generally won't be noticeable yet.

This is aside from mental influence and the energetic influences from the food consumed. No matter what density anyone comes from, there is still the physical body here, and it is as real as anything else is, though fleeting within the grand scope of things. Why not take good care of everything you (to no one in particular) are caretaker of?

(07-25-2015, 01:09 PM)Monica Wrote:

(07-25-2015, 01:06 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote:

Monica Wrote:You didn't even look at those pics of malnourished vegans.

Good insight, having looked at them now I stand by my words.

Like you said, hard to admit when we're wrong, eh?  

(07-25-2015, 01:22 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Well I don't exercise and never said a vegan diet wasn't good for the body.

(07-25-2015, 01:30 PM)Monica Wrote:

(07-25-2015, 01:22 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Well I don't exercise and never said a vegan diet wasn't good for the body.

Then maybe I misunderstood when you said "I stand by my words." I wasn't sure what you meant by that.

(07-25-2015, 01:35 PM)Bluebell Wrote: everyone has a different body. some bodies don't run on carrots.

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Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

(07-27-2015, 09:25 AM)Matt1 Wrote: Could the rejectment of enjoying meat be consider not accepting and experiencing a part of the self?

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

Ra says that it is proper to experience all things desired by the self, which would logically include the enjoyment of eating meats, which would then be accepted and understood. While not trying to over come that desire. However they do go on to say that which is not needed will fall away, in such a casing of eating of meats could be consider by some individuals as not necessary in their overall balance, but that does not mean that the unique balance of an other entity would result in the ceasing of eating meat products.

(07-27-2015, 02:20 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Ra didn't just say to experience all things desired by self.
He said only for those desires that are consonant with the Law of One.
That means to me not violating anyone's free will.

(07-27-2015, 01:30 PM)Monica Wrote:

(07-27-2015, 09:25 AM)Matt1 Wrote: Could the rejectment of enjoying meat be consider not accepting and experiencing a part of the self?

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

Ra says that it is proper to experience all things desired by the self, which would logically include the enjoyment of eating meats, which would then be accepted and understood. While not trying to over come that desire. However they do go on to say that which is not needed will fall away, in such a casing of eating of meats could be consider by some individuals as not necessary in their overall balance, but that does not mean that the unique balance of an other entity would result in the ceasing of eating meat products.

Ra also says a LOT of other things too! I think this quote should be 1.) taken in context and 2.) balanced with all the other quotes from Ra about service, polarity, and many other issues.

But let's try ignoring context and other concepts, just for now, and apply this stand-alone quote to another situation, just for fun:

Let's say that one of our members wants to start a thread called "How to rape and murder little girls."

How many of you will tell them "Oh go right ahead...who am I to judge? Don't try to suppress your impulses to rape and murder little girls, because Ra said that you're supposed to experience all things desired by self! So if you desire that, then go right ahead and rape and murder little girls! Don't try to overcome it...just let it fall away naturally. Or maybe it won't fall away at all. That's ok too."

How does that work?

...

(07-27-2015, 01:30 PM)Monica Wrote:

(07-27-2015, 09:25 AM)Matt1 Wrote: Could the rejectment of enjoying meat be consider not accepting and experiencing a part of the self?

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

Ra says that it is proper to experience all things desired by the self, which would logically include the enjoyment of eating meats, which would then be accepted and understood. While not trying to over come that desire. However they do go on to say that which is not needed will fall away, in such a casing of eating of meats could be consider by some individuals as not necessary in their overall balance, but that does not mean that the unique balance off an other entity would result in the ceasing of eating meat products.

Ra also says a LOT of other things too! I think this quote should be 1.) taken in context and 2.) balanced with all the other quotes from Ra about service, polarity, and many other issues.

But let's try ignoring context and other concepts, just for now, and apply this stand-alone quote to another situation, just for fun:

Let's say that one of our members wants to start a thread called "How to rape and murder little girls."

How many of you will tell them "Oh go right ahead...who am I to judge? Don't try to suppress your impulses to rape and murder little girls, because Ra said that you're supposed to experience all things desired by self! So if you desire that, then go right ahead and rape and murder little girls! Don't try to overcome it...just let it fall away naturally. Or maybe it won't fall away at all. That's ok too."

How does that work?

...

(07-27-2015, 02:45 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: It works as that all rapes happening on earth could be prevented by higher density beings which they do not because of free will, as the goal of it all is for the Creator to know Itself and nothing more. 

(07-27-2015, 03:34 PM)Matt1 Wrote: I think that was a rather exterm jump.

(07-27-2015, 03:34 PM)Matt1 Wrote: However if one did have those feelings based on Ra's teachings they said the visualization of those actions in the mind would be far better than carrying them out on the physical plane.

(07-27-2015, 03:34 PM)Matt1 Wrote: I don't think such logic would be carried out to second density animals that are used as a food source,

(07-27-2015, 03:34 PM)Matt1 Wrote: it would rather i believe help them progress in the development of self awareness. Its similar to the idea that 4th density entities may feed of our energy which is called loosh, and in learning to deal with that we learn to process the catalyst towards forgiveness and universal love.

(07-27-2015, 03:44 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Another point, what tells you that a rapist isn't worthy of your compassion just as much as the victim?

(07-27-2015, 03:44 PM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: Think about what you'd need as circumstances to get there in the first place. In my opinion you simply prefer to look at other's distortions rather than face your own, which we all do to different extents.

(07-27-2015, 06:30 PM)Monica Wrote:

(07-27-2015, 03:34 PM)Matt1 Wrote: I think that was a rather exterm jump.

Why is it extreme?

(07-27-2015, 03:34 PM)Matt1 Wrote: However if one did have those feelings based on Ra's teachings they said the visualization of those actions in the mind would be far better than carrying them out on the physical plane.

Indeed. So the logic of "well just accept xyz because Ra said to experience whatever you desire" doesn't hold up.

(07-27-2015, 03:34 PM)Matt1 Wrote: I don't think such logic would be carried out to second density animals that are used as a food source,

Why not?

(07-27-2015, 03:34 PM)Matt1 Wrote: it would rather i believe help them progress in the development of self awareness. Its similar to the idea that 4th density entities may feed of our energy which is called loosh, and in learning to deal with that we learn to process the catalyst towards forgiveness and universal love.

Are 4D entities raping and murdering little girls to feed themselves?

No? Just our loosh? Did Ra say that 4D entities feed off our loosh? What kind of entities did Ra say do that? and how do they feed? 

...

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.


The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as theentity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.

All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.

It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.

Quote:In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: Its not logically to move from an animal that doesn't yet have self awareness to move all the way to the "murdering of a little girl" as you call it who is self aware in 3rd density.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: I would say your ignoring the logic of Ra that doesn't work for your argument. All things desired, means all things.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: However only in cases of exterm, they are visualized rather than carried out.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: The eating of animal products for self nourishment and pleasure hasn't reached this level of exterm, because it has the produce of providing the body with what it needs.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: In regarding the loosh aspect, if you are not willing to accept what Ra says in the quote i previously gave, why would you care about another?  
The loosh energy is linked to the developed emotion complex.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: In regards to Mintyaturs point, i think its only fair to question the source of information and the person typing behind the keyboard.

(07-28-2015, 06:33 AM)Elros Tar-Minyatur Wrote: This is Ra's description of the Law of One, I don't see how any action could be considered as disonant with the Law of One (although like any other I do have my own biases in responding to others' words/actions). The judge is the self as a relative window unto the Creator of Himself among infinite other windows. All things will be forgiven with time as it will be known that there never was something to forgive.

When Ra says not consonant with the Law of One, I do see that as not consonant with one's relative view of it.

(07-28-2015, 09:45 AM)Monica Wrote:

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: Its not logically to move from an animal that doesn't yet have self awareness to move all the way to the "murdering of a little girl" as you call it who is self aware in 3rd density.

Animals do have self-awareness.  

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: I would say your ignoring the logic of Ra that doesn't work for your argument. All things desired, means all things.

On the contrary; I am considering all of Ra's words together, rather than cherry-picking a single 1 or 2 quotes.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: However only in cases of exterm, they are visualized rather than carried out.

I'd say that causing the dominance, torture, and killing of a sentient being qualifies as extreme.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: The eating of animal products for self nourishment and pleasure hasn't reached this level of exterm, because it has the produce of providing the body with what it needs.

This has been discussed ad nauseum. It's about pleasure only, because the human body doesn't need meat. Or dairy either. AT ALL.

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: In regarding the loosh aspect, if you are not willing to accept what Ra says in the quote i previously gave, why would you care about another?  
The loosh energy is linked to the developed emotion complex.

I prefer to consider all of Ra's words together, rather than cherry-picking a single quote. I asked you a question specifically about Ra's words, which you haven't answered: Where in the Material does Ra ever say that 4D entities feed off of the energy of humans?

As I recall, Ra does indeed state that they do, but they are 4D negative entities, who feed off of humans' fear and other negative emotions.

Is that whom you wish to emulate?

(07-28-2015, 02:41 AM)Matt1 Wrote: In regards to Mintyaturs point, i think its only fair to question the source of information and the person typing behind the keyboard.

You can question all you like but it isn't relevant to the conversation and you won't get any participation from me.

Quote:13.21 Questioner: Then how does the second density progress to the third?

Ra: I am Ra. The second density strives towards the third density which is the density of self-consciousness or self-awareness. The striving takes place through the higher second-density forms who are invested by third-density beings with an identity to the extent that they become self-aware mind/body complexes, thus becoming mind/body/spirit complexes and entering third density, the first density of consciousness of spirit.

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: Self Awareness is of 3rd density, not second.

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: We are not torturing second density animals, we are using them as a food source to fuel the body. They are grown and then killed to be ate. If one was to torture an animal it would be consider animal abuse by law in most countries, this isn't the case.

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: The humans are unique i wouldn't over generalize in saying that nobody will benefit from eating a meat based diet. Sure you can be Veggie or Vegan and survive, that doesn't mean it will work for every bodies unique needs.

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: I understand you asked me a direct question and i directly gave you an answer to it, by pointing out if your going to reject clear information given, what would be the point it sharing it.

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: 4th Density negative beings do feed off negative energies, and loosh is a general concept that exists outside of the Law of One, its common in most esoterica/occultism.
The 3rd density beings learn to deal with and it promotes further growth and development. This can be seen likewise with Animals.

(07-28-2015, 10:28 AM)Monica Wrote:

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: Self Awareness is of 3rd density, not second.

No, Self-awareness is the criteria for getting to 3D. It is developed in 2D.

Just like love/green ray activation is the criteria for 4D. Yet we do experience love and an open heart in 3D, no?

Animals are late 2D, nearing the level of self-awareness to go to 3D, just as many humans are late 3D, nearing sufficient green ray activation to go to 4D.

This thread explores these concepts in depth:

Bring4th Forums One > Strictly Law of One Material  v > Ra's Statements About 2D Entities

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: We are not torturing second density animals, we are using them as a food source to fuel the body. They are grown and then killed to be ate. If one was to torture an animal it would be consider animal abuse by law in most countries, this isn't the case.

My goodness, please get educated about the meat/dairy industry! You are so mistaken!

Here, these will help you understand:

Meet Your Meat

Bacon in 60 Seconds Flat

Chicken in 60 Seconds Flat

The Dairy Industry in 60 Seconds Flat

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: The humans are unique i wouldn't over generalize in saying that nobody will benefit from eating a meat based diet. Sure you can be Veggie or Vegan and survive, that doesn't mean it will work for every bodies unique needs.

Human dietary needs vary somewhat, mostly due to the overconsumption of processed foods. However, NO human ever needs meat or dairy. It's simple physiology and this fact has been scientifically proven. It's pretty irrefutable. The only nutrient not found in plants is vitamin B12, and that's only because we no longer eat dirt. If we didn't wash our produce, our gut could synthesize B12 from dirt bacteria, just like animals do. So, that is the one nutrient we do have to supplement. Thankfully, it's very cheap and easy to do.

Now, many people think they need it, but they just aren't educated about how to get their nutrients from plants. 

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: I understand you asked me a direct question and i directly gave you an answer to it, by pointing out if your going to reject clear information given, what would be the point it sharing it.

I never reject quotes from Ra. I do, however, reject making blanket statements based on single quotes without balancing those with other quotes.

The Ra Material is obviously subject to interpretation.

In the spirit of considering multiple quotes together, I asked you a direct question about where Ra ever said that.

As I recall, Ra only said that about higher STS entities. If you find another quote where Ra said that higher STO entities feed off of the energies of humans, then please share it with me.

(07-28-2015, 10:02 AM)Matt1 Wrote: 4th Density negative beings do feed off negative energies, and loosh is a general concept that exists outside of the Law of One, its common in most esoterica/occultism.
The 3rd density beings learn to deal with and it promotes further growth and development. This can be seen likewise with Animals.

Yes, indeed. But the point is that you seemed to be trying to justify humans feeding off the fear and suffering of animals, on the basis that 4D STS beings feed off the fear and suffering of humans.

If that's the case, then I ask you: Why do you want to emulate 4D negative beings?

Quote:Self Awareness is of 3rd density, not second.

Quote:We are not torturing second density animals, we are using them as a food source to fuel the body.

Quote:If one was to torture an animal it would be consider animal abuse by law in most countries, this isn't the case.

Quote:The humans are unique i wouldn't over generalize in saying that nobody will benefit from eating a meat based diet. Sure you can be Veggie or Vegan and survive, that doesn't mean it will work for every bodies unique needs.

Quote:Could the rejectment of enjoying meat be consider not accepting and experiencing a part of the self?