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+---- Thread: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? (/showthread.php?tid=6239)
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Oldern - 12-22-2012
"People can mock me and say, "I told you so" but you sound like unloving hypocrites who are not striving for Unity but rather for Separation when you do that."
Actually, you are the one doing this. I do not see those people that you are trying to "address".
"I want to talk to the people who did believe it. What now? I believed it for many years."
I am not amongst "those people" (but "them" and "I" are the same
), but I can emulate "one" for you. Here it goes: learning is an internal process, no matter how gullible one is. One can run towards new, supposedly "all true" material after this one, then another one, then another one. All will fail. Guaranteed. Because there is no magic material that is "Da Truth". There is no single "Truth", other than All Is One, I Exist, and What You Put Out Is What You Get Back. But these are not magic pills helping one to ignore anything. They are facilators for valid experience.
So, again, let me ask you a friendly question: what is your point, exactly?
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Dinko - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 05:56 PM)yossarian Wrote:i fell for it, and i am so sad that i am still in this body, i wish that everybody got its wish from 21,12,2012, it hurts when u dont get what u want... love to u brother(12-22-2012, 05:33 PM)Dinko Wrote:(12-22-2012, 05:26 PM)yossarian Wrote:its ok bro... u will ascend sometime(12-22-2012, 05:18 PM)Dinko Wrote: maybe someone ascended in their paralel reality from their perspective that we cant see...
And how is this in line with the Ra Material or with what any other new age guru said?
If people ascended in their parallel reality, how is 2012 momentous for humanity? Why is it a big deal if all that happens is a bunch of people imperceptibly ascend but they still leave behind their lower selves to suffer on the 3D plane?
You can say anything when it comes to that. Maybe invisible unicorns exist. Claiming that invisible unicorns are coming on 2012 would not make you famous, would not make your Ra Material famous, would not make David Wilcock or New Age material famous.
The reason these things are famous is because they DID NOT predict INVISIBLE unicorns. It's because they DID predict VISIBLE unicorns.
Now that visible unicorns aren't here, are we just going to say, "Well they meant INvisible and they simply misspoke" ? Are we THAT much of a sucker?
Is this what passes for compassion around here?
(12-22-2012, 05:54 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(12-22-2012, 05:26 PM)yossarian Wrote: Now that visible unicorns aren't here, are we just going to say, "Well they meant INvisible and they simply misspoke" ? Are we THAT much of a sucker?yoss, you and I both know you are correct in general. Remember that many of these ideas were generated for the purpose of entertainment and escapism. You will recall all of the sci-fi references and other popular fantasy motifs blended in for appeal. If evolution was that simple, there would be no actual value provided - no learning about what really matters. "There is no experience which is not purchased by effort of some kind, no act of service to self or others which does not bear a price, to the entity manifesting, commensurate with its purity. All things in manifestation may be seen in one way or another to be offering themselves in order that transformations may take place upon the level appropriate to the action."
Actual, rather than imaginary, transformations take place from real work and responsibility. Not from jumping on someone's fantasy bandwagon which may 'resonate' with vague and overly confused notions of what it could mean to be suddenly exalted.
Sure. You've been preaching this for years, so you actually have credibility. You never believed in 2012.
Others did and it is those others I am trying to address.
Your notion of evolution of consciousness, which aligns with Shin'Ar, is not the notion that has yesterday been debunked.
Many people don't see David Wilcock as fantasy or entertainment. Many people took Ra seriously when Ra said, "The moment of ascension is like a clock striking on the hour. No one is excluded from this process." and many people took the 2011 prediction of Ra seriously.
So far in this thread we have people who never believed it just saying, "Same as usual."
I want to talk to the people who did believe it. What now? I believed it for many years. When I first read about "the striking clock" style harvest in the Ra Material I believed that it was coming in 2011 and I said to myself, "Wow, that isn't far off!"
Some parts of Ra said it would take many years, but this was NOT clear at all.
I then found all kinds of New Agers channelling giving supposedly factual messages about 2012.
You have always been convinced that most of this is just fantasy and entertainment. But I really believed it for quite a few years.
People can mock me and say, "I told you so" but you sound like unloving hypocrites who are not striving for Unity but rather for Separation when you do that.
It's like, "Ok, 2012 hit, now it's time to throw everyone who believed in it under the bus. All that love and unity and compassion stuff? That was just bullshit. The real separation is between us and you. We who weren't dumb enough to fall for it, and those of you who took The Harvest to mean the one described by Ra as 2011 ascension involving massive amounts of telekinesis and so on."
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Shin'Ar - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 05:56 PM)yossarian Wrote: I then found all kinds of New Agers channelling giving supposedly factual messages about 2012.
Do not become of the same vibration in your criticism and frustration Yossarian.
A shift is occurring in the very emotional responses of this event having both slowly come and quickly passed.
You must realize that many have also taken great advantage of such opportunities, but in no way does that dismiss the many evolving and enlightened aspects of this shift actually achieving something from it.
There are many sacred places around the globe where yesterday great events took place in which many charlatans made vast amounts of money.
There was also many places where certain fields have been successful in establishing extremely beneficial transformations in vibration and awareness.
As our human history reveals there are always those who take advantage of circumstances for promotion of self.
What bothers you most now, is that you feel anger at having been caught up in one of those efforts.
And now, in this state in which 'you' deliberate to cry 'wronged' and 'fraud' you also assist in the same transformations they created with their own attachment to 'self'.
Can you understand what I say?
Free your 'self' by denying the delusion an identity, and all of this judging and turmoil will also dissipate.
None would be amazed by the affect a magnet would have on a small piece of metal as it draws toward it.
Why is it so difficult to expand that on a cosmic level and suppose the effect that a magnetic planetary body may have on others in the universe?
Is our moon not held in place by such interactions? Is our planet not held in place by its relation to the sun?
So also is our field connected to The One.
In ever waking moment there are cosmic events interacting on both higher and lower states of being. The vibrations of one shall affect the other.
And it is this truth which the Ancients have tried to teach us for countless eons.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - yossarian - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 06:11 PM)Oldern Wrote: "People can mock me and say, "I told you so" but you sound like unloving hypocrites who are not striving for Unity but rather for Separation when you do that."
Actually, you are the one doing this. I do not see those people that you are trying to "address".
This is because you lack empathy. You can't see how many of these responses would be heard by the True Believers.
Quote:So, again, let me ask you a friendly question: what is your point, exactly?
My point is to prompt discussion of this mass delusion. I want to discuss it and hear people's opinions instead of just having everyone ignore it and pretend it never happened.
I want to discuss it here, where out of all the internet forums on the internet, the 2012 discussion was arguably the most sophisticated. There is an entire forum dedicated to it. And regardless that some people argued for the "gradualism" theory, the Ra Material on first reading clearly supports the abrupt shift.
What was the Ra Material? Is it really who it says it is?
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - almostdone - 12-22-2012
I can see that this is causing spiritual crisis in many including myself.
I have to confess that I was convinced that nothing will happen in that date because of what I exposed before (Ra said specific dates are negative in origin) but then while surfing the internet very few weeks just before 12/21/12 was going to occur I found myself exposed to all kind of channelings like yossarian said that were ABSOLUTELY saying it was going to be on THAT date including some convincing ones found in this forum including some alleged "8th density beings" "from next octave".
So yes, everything all the sudden there was a date for me and "of course, must be the 12/21/12"...
Since Ra did not give the date I cannot disregard the material. However, if something does not happen lets say within next couple of years --I mean even if it is gradual there has to be TANGIBLE changes---things do not happen, I would have to question some spiritual/mental assumptions.
Personally, I think the occurrance has to be of such a impact that it would be impossible to miss when the "It" strikes.
But that nothing happened on a date SO CLOSE to Ra channelings brings a difficult to express despair, since it brings DOUBT --which at this point seems unfounded.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Shin'Ar - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 06:28 PM)yossarian Wrote: What was the Ra Material? Is it really who it says it is?
That is the question that all should ask from the very beginning of becoming aware of it.
Discernment is always necessary.
There is nothing wrong with this discussion or the afterthought of previous thinking.
It can be extremely beneficial and healing.
I simply ask that all strive to achieve a state in which you can realize that this is no different than any other anticipation which man has toward awaiting the solution to Mystery, which shall never come.
Calm should ensue. If not, then the transformation which occurs will be of negative frequency rather than positive.
How we each resolve this issue of both anticipation and disappointment will manifest as a particular vibration within the All.
The real question should not be of others, it should be what can you offer as your vibration.
This has always been the teaching of The Ancients.
Enchant your own particular connection, and add it it to the All.
(12-22-2012, 06:29 PM)almostdone Wrote: Personally, I think the occurrance has to be of such a impact that it would be impossible to miss when the "It" strikes.
Here is the perfect example of what I related in post number 55.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - yossarian - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 06:21 PM)ShinAr Wrote: Do not become of the same vibration in your criticism and frustration Yossarian.
Right off the bat I have an issue with you.
Why are you telling me what to do?
Is ordering people around a sign of love, self-sacrifice, unity, peace?
Why shouldn't I become whatever vibration I want to become? Why should I conform to your "shoulds"?
Quote:You must realize that many have also taken great advantage of such opportunities, but in no way does that dismiss the many evolving and enlightened aspects of this shift actually achieving something from it.
Such as?
Quote:There are many sacred places around the globe where yesterday great events took place in which many charlatans made vast amounts of money.
There was also many places where certain fields have been successful in establishing extremely beneficial transformations in vibration and awareness.
How do you know this and why should I trust you?
Quote:What bothers you most now, is that you feel anger at having been caught up in one of those efforts.
Agreed. I believed people based on their charisma. I saw people who seemed honest to me saying they had personal, sure knowledge of something and I believed them because they didn't seem like liars to me.
They said they had seen scientific evidence, I believed them.
They said they had intuitive evidence of a personal nature, I believed them.
They said they had reliable insider testimony proving it, I believed them.
They said they had mystical experiences of conversing with higher beings who revealed these truths. I believed them.
They said their channelled material was reliable information from a higher being that has a track record of verified true conclusions. I believed them.
They said they could "feel" or "see" certain truths and that they knew these truths through intuitive gnosis. They said these constitute proof that it is real. I believed them.
They said they could "feel" certain shifts but only those with the spiritual vision to see them can notice these spiritual shifts. Why should I believe them?
All that has changed is the New Age narrative. Power has shifted from the 2012 apocalypse paddlers to the:
"oh wow it's in my feelings wow can you feel this shift i can feel this shift are you sensitive enough to feel it? wow so magical oh yeah"
Quote:Can you understand what I say?
It sounds like New Age bullshit that is vague enough so that when I spend a few years trying to do what you're asking me to do, and nothing happens, you'll be able to spin up some new vague tale and preserve your psycho-spiritual dominance.
My judgement of all who give New Age advice that they are people (often unconsciously) seeking psycho-spiritual dominance of others. They are seductive and vague to hide the fact that their teachings are little more than a request for obedience of one kind or another. They never accept you as you are and instead always try to change you in a way that will please them.
For instance, if I'm angry, New Age people will bombard with an endless series of "Be peaceful [to me] be kind [to me] be loving [to me] submit [to me] buy my book [from me]."
And then they call this behaviour loving... is it loving to constantly be demanding submission and obedience? Is it loving to pathologize my anger and tell me that my anger is somehow a symptom of my lower consciousness? When you say I have lower consciousness or less spirituality than you you are putting yourself on a pedestal. Is that serving "others" or your "self"?
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Oldern - 12-22-2012
yossarian Wrote:This is because you lack empathy. You can't see how many of these responses would be heard by the True Believers.
I feel no point in reciprocating such divisive statements, so I will leave it at that.
yossarian Wrote:My point is to prompt discussion of this mass delusion. I want to discuss it and hear people's opinions instead of just having everyone ignore it and pretend it never happened.
I want to discuss it here, where out of all the internet forums on the internet, the 2012 discussion was arguably the most sophisticated. There is an entire forum dedicated to it. And regardless that some people argued for the "gradualism" theory, the Ra Material on first reading clearly supports the abrupt shift.
What was the Ra Material? Is it really who it says it is?
The discussion is ongoing. I am not sure how you missed it, but Ankh already addressed some of your concerns - if not all.
Law of One,as a channeled material, is prone to the same errors than ANY other material. With this being estabilished as a starting point to all discussions, it is hard to argue for its perceived invincibility. It is not invincible.
It, to my opinion, still remains one of the most powerful transformational tools for an Adept. It still contains ways for effective and useful self-Reflection, realizations (both inner and outer), and opening up of all kinds of new experiences, energies and catalysts. One of them has been 12.21.2012
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - TheFifty9Sound - 12-22-2012
For the record, I apologize for some of my earlier comments that came across harsher than I intended.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - almostdone - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 06:36 PM)ShinAr Wrote:(12-22-2012, 06:28 PM)yossarian Wrote: What was the Ra Material? Is it really who it says it is?
That is the question that all should ask from the very beginning of becoming aware of it.
Discernment is always necessary.
There is nothing wrong with this discussion or the afterthought of previous thinking.
It can be extremely beneficial and healing.
I simply ask that all strive to achieve a state in which you can realize that this is no different than any other anticipation which man has toward awaiting the solution to Mystery, which shall never come.
Calm should ensue. If not, then the transformation which occurs will be of negative frequency rather than positive.
How we each resolve this issue of both anticipation and disappointment will manifest as a particular vibration within the All.
The real question should not be of others, it should be what can you offer as your vibration.
This has always been the teaching of The Ancients.
Enchant your own particular connection, and add it it to the All.
(12-22-2012, 06:29 PM)almostdone Wrote: Personally, I think the occurrance has to be of such a impact that it would be impossible to miss when the "It" strikes.
Here is the perfect example of what I related in post number 55.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - yossarian - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 06:45 PM)Oldern Wrote:yossarian Wrote:This is because you lack empathy. You can't see how many of these responses would be heard by the True Believers.
I feel no point in reciprocating such divisive statements, so I will leave it at that.
Wow you're so much more spiritual than me. I am truly awed at your spiritual superiority. You would never make such an honest statement because honesty is divisive.
This is precisely the issue with the New Age community. New Agers will never confront criticisms, they just dismiss them as divisive. David Wilcock has been doing this for 10 years. Any of this critics he simply lables as "angry unspiritual people" and bans them from his forum.
As if Jesus was never angry or that anger is somehow an inferior feeling in comparison to holier-than-thou, smug, spiritual superiority that pretends it is above-it-all.
People on Bring4th have been LITERALLY counting down the days and I want a new, post-12/21/2012 discussion and I'd prefer not to have people gaslighting me going, "What exactly is your point?" as if nothing has changed.
"Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory, perception and sanity. Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim."
Is the New Age community going to gaslight all of the victims of this?
What are you talking about Dec 21st 2012?! I never said it meant anything! My channelled material made NO SUCH CLAIM! No one really believed that, it was all just a fun joke! If you're a victim of a these widespread lies, why are you even talking? Shouldn't you go discuss in one of those other threads? All of your concerns have already been addressed! Stop being so angry and un-spiritual!
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Spaced - 12-22-2012
Hello Yossarian, Before you read this I want you to know that it does not come from a place of judgement and if it comes off that way I apologize.
2012 entered the public consciousness and became a focal point for thoughts and directed energy. Everyone put all kinds of energies into this event, and what they got out of it is directly proportional to what they put in. What sort of energies did you put into this idea of December 21st? Did you build this date up in your mind or did you simply acknowledge it and the potential it may or may not have or move on with your life? If you are disappointed that the event did not live up to the hype how can you blame another for your choice to focus on it?
You ask us for our thoughts and then get upset when we share them. Why? If it is because we do not share the same disappointment you do that is not our fault. You ask us to share of our experience and then call our responses 'New Age Bullshit' and act like we are trying to control your line of thinking. Why? We do not share our wisdom because we want you to accept it as truth, it's because you asked us too and we want to give you the chance to see things our way. This is a service we are doing for you because, and I apologize if I am generalizing here, we honestly want to help heal this feelings of disappointment you are feeling at this time. In the end it's always you who gets to choose what to believe.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Horuseus - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 06:44 PM)yossarian Wrote: It sounds like New Age bullshit that is vague enough so that when I spend a few years trying to do what you're asking me to do, and nothing happens, you'll be able to spin up some new vague tale and preserve your psycho-spiritual dominance.
Don't believe then? It's quite simple really. No one is forcing you to do anything here.
Why do you look externally for validation of your beliefs? This is a personal observation, and if I have it wrong I do apologize, however It seems to me you're angry because you vested alot of 'time' and 'effort' into what one might consider a 'belief system' of sorts and you were burned when the one hyped up event which some might argue was 'central' to this perspective seemingly failed to come to fruition in the manner certain individuals speculated it would.
Am I somewhere along the right lines? I, as everyone else here I'd imagine, would like to have a proper dialogue and work through this if possible. Work with us here.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - almostdone - 12-22-2012
This is the perfect example of why I don't like posting in these and many other forums...Is like one wants to know more than others and crap like that even when the Ra material is very specific about the "This intelligent energy offers a type of clock. The cycles move as precisely as a clock strikes your hour. Thus, the gateway from intelligent energy to intelligent infinity opens regardless of circumstance on the striking of the hour"..
Another example of "nothing happened"
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Oldern - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 06:56 PM)yossarian Wrote:(12-22-2012, 06:45 PM)Oldern Wrote:yossarian Wrote:This is because you lack empathy. You can't see how many of these responses would be heard by the True Believers.
I feel no point in reciprocating such divisive statements, so I will leave it at that.
Wow you're so much more spiritual than me. I am truly awed at your spiritual superiority. You would never make such an honest statement because honesty is divisive.
This is precisely the issue with the New Age community. New Agers will never confront criticisms, they just dismiss them as divisive. David Wilcock has been doing this for 10 years. Any of this critics he simply lables as "angry unspiritual people" and bans them from his forum.
As if Jesus was never angry or that anger is somehow an inferior feeling in comparison to holier-than-thou, smug, spiritual superiority that pretends it is above-it-all.
People on Bring4th have been LITERALLY counting down the days and I want a new, post-12/21/2012 discussion and I'd prefer not to have people gaslighting me going, "What exactly is your point?" as if nothing has changed.
"Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory, perception and sanity. Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim."
Is the New Age community going to gaslight all of the victims of this?
What are you talking about Dec 21st 2012?! I never said it meant anything! My channelled material made NO SUCH CLAIM! No one really believed that, it was all just a fun joke! If you're a victim of a these widespread lies, why are you even talking? Shouldn't you go discuss in one of those other threads? All of your concerns have already been addressed! Stop being so angry and un-spiritual!
I love how much you can extrapolate from one sentence of mine. Just so you read it: I never even implied that you are "un-spiritual", "less spiritual then me", or how "improved I am". All these are in your head.
Anger IS vibrationally lower than love. That is not a judgement. That is a statement that holds true for me. I hate being angry. Increased blood pressure, hard stance, less clear mind - all these do nothing for me. There were times when I did not recognize these as a by-product of being angry, but those times passed me. That still does not make me better than you.
The problem is that I could just as well type gibberish at this point. You will interpret it as "holier-than-thou New-Age dude judging me", when it is clearly not happening. It did not happen by me, and just look how many other posters are APOLOGIZING for their tone in this thread. Are they pretentious as well? What book are they trying to sell? I surely have none.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - xise - 12-22-2012
I do share some of yossarian's feelings.
I think I would probably be feeling what yossarian is feeling if I haven't had crazy subjective experiences involving the energy centers that for me validates the Law of One for me enough for my skepticism to be satisfied.
I'm not trying to say that I'm superior or anything, but I totally do understand that if I had only "resonated" with the Law of One material, I would be questioning a lot of things right now. I mean heck, 12-21-12 didn't even feel that different to any other day for me (one interesting dream aside).
I think the processing and discussion of the 12-21-12 phenomenon is an important one to have, especially when so many people all over the world believed in something more dramatic. Thank you for starting this discussion yossarian!!
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - yossarian - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 06:57 PM)Spaced Wrote: Hello Yossarian, Before you read this I want you to know that it does not come from a place of judgement and if it comes off that way I apologize.
Hello Spaced. Before I answer your questions I'd like for you to answer my questions. Are you a human being?
Have you ever been angry in your life?
What would be a good reason to be angry at someone?
If someone lies to you, does the liar deserve to be called out?
If someone gets rich by telling lies to vulnerable people, is it the fault of the victim?
Now I'll proceed on to your victim-blaming.
Quote:2012 entered the public consciousness and became a focal point for thoughts and directed energy. Everyone put all kinds of energies into this event, and what they got out of it is directly proportional to what they put in.
Why should I believe you?
This isn't what the New Age channellings told me. The channellings and the associated gurus said there would be a shift for all of humanity leading us into a world that is 100 times more harmonious.
So what the hell is this metaphysics you're talking about and why should I accept it? Are you even human, because your little theory there has no relation to the human reality that I'm familiar with.
Quote:What sort of energies did you put into this idea of December 21st? Did you build this date up in your mind or did you simply acknowledge it and the potential it may or may not have or move on with your life. If you are disappointed that the event did not live up to the hype how can you blame another for your choice to focus on it?
Energies... like gasoline? What kind of energy are you even talking about? Do you call feelings "energy" or something? Why would you use such strange words to talk about feelings or emotions?
If you're asking me what kinds of FEELINGS I had, rather than what kinds of "ENERGIES" I had, I can probably answer. But first please clarify. I assume you have a good reason for using these words and you're not just peddling New Age bullshit, so help me out.
Quote:You ask us for our thoughts and then get upset when we share them. Why?
That's precisely what I have been explaining.
1. Victim blaming all the people who were defrauded by the frauds and charlatans.
2. Denying responsibility for promoting the kind of fuzzy thinking and bullshit that allowed the above frauds to victimize their victims.
3. Dodging the uncomfortable discussion. Claiming that no one really believed in 2012 and therefore there is nothing to discuss.
4. Ordering people around. Telling them that they shouldn't feel angry because anger is non-spiritual. Anger is for the spiritually inferior and if you are angry at being victimized you have some growing up to do!
5. Using words like "energy" and "vibration" instead of "feeling" or "emotion." What is the purpose of using such imprecise words that are out of line with conventional language?
6. Saying stuff like "I'm not trying to convince you of anything" while you try to convince people of something, some world view, some perspective on reality.
I could go on. There are many reasons why I'm angry. My main source of anger at this moment is the fact many people here want to tell me that my anger is invalid. They are literally invalidating my feelings and pretending this is compassionate or loving. Wow. This is classic psychological and emotional abuse.
Quote:If it is because we do not share the same disappointment you do that is not our fault. You ask us to share of our experience and then call our responses 'New Age Bullshit' and act like we are trying to control your line of thinking. Why?
Shin'Ar directly told me what to do. He even phrased it as a request. Don't pretend that all New Age people aren't always telling everyone else to be spiritual and loving and so on. THEY ARE.
Quote: We do not share our wisdom because we want you to accept it as truth, it's because you asked us too and we want to give you the chance to see things our way. This is a service we are doing for you because, and I apologize if I am generalizing here, we honestly want to help heal this feelings of disappointment you are feeling at this time. In the end it's always you who gets to choose what to believe.
How can you speak for everyone who posted in this thread?
You are sharing your perspective. Ok. You think it is service to others to share your New Age beliefs with them in a persuasive way. You think this will heal their disappointment or whatever. Fine.
How can you pretend that this is what EVERYONE is thinking? Is that not the perfect example of New Age bullshit? Thinking you can talk for everyone and that everyone only has the PUREST, MOST SPIRITUAL, MOST HIGH-MINDED INTENTIONS? No one would ever be unconsciously trying to psycho-spiritually dominate others by spinning tales of love and peace and harmony and being-better-than-ness.
No one would ever base their entire career on being more spiritual than everyone else, right?
Cmon. The New Age community is full of frauds and abusers and if you don't want me to point it out, you are COVERING for them!
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Aaron - 12-22-2012
Moderator note - guideline reminder:
I understand that it's extra difficult at this time, but I want to point this thread's participants to guideline number one.
Quote:1) Respect. Compassion. Loving-kindness. Empathy. Trust. Goodwill. Desire to serve. Embracing each other. Opening our heart. Participants are asked to keep the thought in the forefront of their minds at all times that each on this forum IS the Creator. Please keep communication respectful at all times and in all ways. The participant may disagree to the bone with an idea without personally attacking the author of the idea. Please remember that we are all here to expand our knowledge, deepen our understanding, and support one another by reflecting our divinity to each other. We are One being -- we are not here to forget the real.
End moderator note.
I was thinking of this quote by Ra:
49.6 Wrote:Each experience will be sequentially understood by the growing and seeking mind/body/spirit complex in terms of survival, then in terms of personal identity, then in terms of social relations, then in terms of universal love, then in terms of how the experience may beget free communication, then in terms of how the experience may be linked to universal energies, and finally in terms of the sacramental nature of each experience.
As a group of seekers, it seems we experience this catalyst of the post-2012 scenario, and express/experience it through the energy centers one by one as we work it upwards. As the catalyst is experienced and expressed by each in the group through the orange ray, and by the group through the yellow ray, it could possibly be creating this pain and conflict that we have here.
I see a lot of possibility for hamonization here. We're all in "project earth" together no matter what... And as we work through our feelings about this event or non-event, which has come and gone, it's possible to see the ever greater importance to open the heart and serve one another, so that we may help to bring eachother home.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - yossarian - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 07:01 PM)Horuseus Wrote:(12-22-2012, 06:44 PM)yossarian Wrote: It sounds like New Age bullshit that is vague enough so that when I spend a few years trying to do what you're asking me to do, and nothing happens, you'll be able to spin up some new vague tale and preserve your psycho-spiritual dominance.
Don't believe then? It's quite simple really. No one is forcing you to do anything here.
Does this excuse work for used car salesmen who defraud their clients?
Your honor, I didn't FORCE him to buy the car. He chose freely! Therefore, no crime was committed!
It's like you think that LYING is OKAY or something.
Why aren't you condemning the liars? Because you think lying is ok as long as it doesn't involve "force"?
Quote:Why do you look externally for validation of your beliefs?
Feelings aren't beliefs. Different things. I'm saying that people are invalidating my feelings, which is to be expected since my feelings are considered unacceptable by the New Age community, which in itself is good evidence that the New Age community is essentially a hive of emotionally abusive people.
Quote:This is a personal observation, and if I have it wrong I do apologize, however It seems to me you're angry because you vested alot of 'time' and 'effort' into what one might consider a 'belief system' of sorts and you were burned when the one hyped up event which some might argue was 'central' to this perspective seemingly failed to come to fruition in the manner certain individuals speculated it would.
Am I somewhere along the right lines? I, as everyone else here I'd imagine, would like to have a proper dialogue and work through this if possible. Work with us here.
Yes. I'm angry because certain people push a belief system that is false and then, when called out on it, they act like they had no involvement.
Your honor it was all the victim's fault that he believed my lies! Labelling me a liar is completely unfair because HE BELIEVED THEM of his own free will!
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Spaced - 12-22-2012
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my post Yossarian. I see that our views are incompatible so I will humbly bow out here.
I will add that yes I am a human being and that yes I have felt anger. Lots of it, plenty of times, enough to know that I always end up regretting what I do under it's influence.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - yossarian - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 07:05 PM)Oldern Wrote: I love how much you can extrapolate from one sentence of mine. Just so you read it: I never even implied that you are "un-spiritual", "less spiritual then me", or how "improved I am". All these are in your head.
Anger IS vibrationally lower than love.
Case closed!
Quote:It did not happen by me, and just look how many other posters are APOLOGIZING for their tone in this thread.
They apologized. You didn't. You claim it is all projection. Classic tactic of the emotionally abusive gaslighter.
"hey are you mad because I'm being an unempathetic jerk? You're just projecting and are experiencing a vibrationally lower state than me!"
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - xise - 12-22-2012
One thing that does make you pause is that not only did so many channeled sources predict an abrupt shift, but there was a seemingly lack of channeled sources that made it clear to predict that this would be a subtle gradual shift (correct me if I'm wrong, but when I say this I look at websites such as www.lightworkers.org).
It makes you think. Certainly one answer is that perhaps there were too many probability vortices. But it just doesn't seem to make sense that there would be so many negatively hijacked channels who predicted abrupt shift - wouldn't numerous positive sources at least try and balance that out by overtly predicting gradual change or that no one knows? Although Q'uo just jumped to mind as predicting gradual change.
This is certainly an interesting discussion.
One thing I want to add, is that for whatever reason a lot of people don't give others space for anger and frustration.
I think it's totally ok to be angry and frustrated about what happened on 12-21-12. I think a part of me is. And I'm trying to be ok with that. C'est la vie!
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Oldern - 12-22-2012
yossarian Wrote:They apologized. You didn't. You claim it is all projection. Classic tactic of the emotionally abusive gaslighter.
"hey are you mad because I'm being an unempathetic jerk? You're just projecting and are experiencing a vibrationally lower state than me!"
Again: why should I apologize? Did I hurt you? Where?
Also: it makes it really hard to argue with someone who responds to things that I did not even wrote.
(12-22-2012, 07:33 PM)Oldern Wrote:yossarian Wrote:They apologized. You didn't. You claim it is all projection. Classic tactic of the emotionally abusive gaslighter.
"hey are you mad because I'm being an unempathetic jerk? You're just projecting and are experiencing a vibrationally lower state than me!"
Again: why should I apologize? Did I hurt you? Where?
Also: it makes it really hard to argue with someone who responds to things that I did not even wrote.
I hope you will sleep on this, and will feel better in a day or two. Good luck with it.
(12-22-2012, 07:33 PM)Oldern Wrote: [quote='yossarian']
They apologized. You didn't. You claim it is all projection. Classic tactic of the emotionally abusive gaslighter.
"hey are you mad because I'm being an unempathetic jerk? You're just projecting and are experiencing a vibrationally lower state than me!"
Again: why should I apologize? Did I hurt you? Where?
Also: it makes it really hard to argue with someone who responds to things that I did not even wrote.
I hope you will sleep on this, and will feel better in a day or two. Good luck with it.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - almostdone - 12-22-2012
What did Q'uo say about 2012? If I am not mistaken they also said the change started 12/21/12. Am I correct?
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Oldern - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 07:33 PM)Oldern Wrote: [quote='yossarian']
They apologized. You didn't. You claim it is all projection. Classic tactic of the emotionally abusive gaslighter.
"hey are you mad because I'm being an unempathetic jerk? You're just projecting and are experiencing a vibrationally lower state than me!"
Again: why should I apologize? Did I hurt you? Where?
Also: it makes it really hard to argue with someone who responds to things that I did not even wrote.
I hope you will sleep on this, and will feel better in a day or two. Good luck with it.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - yossarian - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 07:34 PM)Oldern Wrote:(12-22-2012, 07:33 PM)Oldern Wrote: [quote='yossarian']
They apologized. You didn't. You claim it is all projection. Classic tactic of the emotionally abusive gaslighter.
"hey are you mad because I'm being an unempathetic jerk? You're just projecting and are experiencing a vibrationally lower state than me!"
Again: why should I apologize? Did I hurt you? Where?
Also: it makes it really hard to argue with someone who responds to things that I did not even wrote.
I hope you will sleep on this, and will feel better in a day or two. Good luck with it.
Most emotionally abusive people have no idea they are doing it.
I've had the advantage of being trained in how to spot emotional, psychological, and intellectual abuse. Unfortunately this means that I think a large percentage of New Agers are emotionally, psychologically, and intellectually abusive. You're not the only one. They constantly invalidate each other's feelings and they constantly gaslight to invalidate each other's experiences when those feelings or experiences have negative things to say about the New Age belief complex. They constantly demean uses of the intellect and invalidate each other's intelligence or judgement.
This leads pretty clearly to the hypothesis that the New Age community is a place where emotionally abused people re-live the abuse they experienced in their families of origin. Both by being emotionally abusive and by receiving emotional abuse.
So I'm not actually asking for an apology, but I do believe that the one guy who apologized is probably able to recognize that he was not being compassionate or loving in the way he responded to people who are suffering from the 2012 fraud.
You, on the other hand, are not apologizing because you don't believe that you did anything unloving or lacking in compassion or lacking in empathy.
You have every reason to doubt anyone who calls your spiritually high vibration into question. I wouldn't want to believe that my anger is "lower" either. I wouldn't want to believe that if I've lacked compassion in the past it makes me "lower" than others. So if I was in your shoes I would reject anyone who criticizes my empathy too.
But if you had empathy, would you be treating me like this? Where is your empathy for the victims of the 2012 fraud?
(12-22-2012, 07:34 PM)almostdone Wrote: What did Q'uo say about 2012? If I am not mistaken they also said the change started 12/21/12. Am I correct?
They said it would be gradual and take hundreds of years.
So it is interesting that Carla, who channelled the 2011 prediction, later channelled the gradualism prediction.
But a lot of people take Ra to be more authoritative than Q'uo, and Ra seemed to, on the whole, promote a sudden shift rather than gradual. Like the clock striking on the hour.
I guess with Ra it comes down to which parts of the text you hold authoritative.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Oldern - 12-22-2012
I do not follow you at all.
You are pulling a lot of strawman around this whole thread, completely ignore constructive/larger posts (like my second post, for example, where I do no attack), generalize the whole Bring4th community and the New-Age community at large and equate them with "abusers", while maintaing an angry stance - yet somehow you are safe to make assumptions and spot abuse because the moment someone disagrees with you, that is an empathy-lacking monster or an abuser New-Age guy.
And I am still not treating you "like this". THAT is in your head, not "everything". I did not call you an abuser. I did not state you lack empathy. I did not try to invalidate anything you said. So really, why do you perceive an attack when there is none?
I might be completely on the wrong here for not feeling ANGRY for all the charlatans out there. I did not try denying that there are lots of them in the internet, in real life. Somewhere down the line I decided to simply not get involved with them, as simple as that. This whole "new age fraud" reached me to this extent: I have spend 15$ on two Tom Kenyon sound meditations. I purchased the White Tara Meditation after listening to the shorter (free) version for like...110-120 times. I am not kidding, that is how much I got out of that short version. I do not feel ripped. All Q'Uo and Ra transcripts are put on the LLResearch for free. I do not deal with frauds, I do not support them, and I certainly do not defend them. And the only time I hear David Wilcock's name is when he is brought up in cases like this, so I can certainly not say anything about him at all.
We are constanly victims of many things. Many people are victims of their own ego, of their parent's expectations, of their friend's expectations, victims of school/workplace bullies, bad health tips, substance dependance, etc etc - those that pull and extra few bucks out of your pocket, offering spiritual advice are amongst these problems as well. Am I a twisted madmen for deciding to NOT swear on my life for exterminating all abusers, no matter who/where they might be? I hope not.
But to be back from this personal, insult-laden sidetrack of ours: using meditations and critical thinking, I discarded any information that stated that 12-21 will be a sudden event that affects (positively or negatively) all beings in a drastic way. If I had not done that, that would have been a catalyst strong enough to produce extensive disappointment or anger, I suppose.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - zenmaster - 12-22-2012
(12-22-2012, 07:42 PM)yossarian Wrote: But a lot of people take Ra to be more authoritative than Q'uo, and Ra seemed to, on the whole, promote a sudden shift rather than gradual. Like the clock striking on the hour.I've seen people misinterpret text as well. For example "clock striking on the hour". David actually said the "sudden" interpretation "was the only responsible one to make." So he was certainly enmeshed in his own fantasies. People resonate with other people carrying their torch.
I guess with Ra it comes down to which parts of the text you hold authoritative.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - BrownEye - 12-22-2012
OMG are people getting butthurt over a harvest false alarm?
C'mon guys, grab hold of those vibrations and let go of the old habits LMAO!
Things are different, stop and sniff the flowers, don't just plow along on the known habitual paths.
RE: 12/21/2012: David Wilcock, Harvest, Ra, New Age Gurus. What does it all mean? - Shin'Ar - 12-22-2012
Yosarrian,
As always, my intentions are to offer loving advice, and in some cases concerned admonition if I sense a need.
And as always, the obligation for discerning is on the receiver.
My concern and offering is always out of love for my fellow fields.
From what energy is this vibration which you now allow to be your field?
It seems that you are, after all, caught up in a very obvious transformation.
If your 'hollering' in a computer forum reply box is not revealing that to you, there is no wonder why you are not receptive to loving advice and discussion.
My suggestions will be here for you to read over again at a later time when your emotions may not be as extreme.
I also advise taking a break from this.
Of course, that should not be taken as an order. No wait now, I am also not ordering you not to take that as an order either.
Wait now.....
hmmm, how do I get myself out of this one gracefully?
Maybe it would be better if there was no one to care about you at all?