(04-25-2011, 10:13 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:

(04-25-2011, 10:11 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Sacrifice is STO. Ding ding ding. We have a winner

Please don't skew my words.

Sacrificing self to save another from an STS act, isn't the same as sacrificing self, to allow an STS act.

(04-25-2011, 10:25 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(04-25-2011, 10:12 PM)Icaro Wrote:

(04-25-2011, 08:38 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: The action is secondary, and the will of love by the self will have a very real effect that immediately impacts the situation and immediately forms the situation into a new situation.

In the case of a fully realized sts entity, they would ignore your efforts. They want nothing to do with you or your sympathy, and would take advantage of this naivete to carry out their intentions by plowing right over you.

True love would totally disregard any polarity loss and karma incurred, and would protect the victim at all costs. True love would sacrifice themselves for the victim and disregard the aggressor.

I think we all agree that any thought/action is ok..that we can accept their intentions within the self as being an aspect of the self. But we cannot allow manipulation/domination to be carried out.

Are you saying that you would allow murder? Or attempt to stop it through acceptance?

(04-25-2011, 10:26 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:

(04-25-2011, 10:25 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:

Sorry. I don't know how to say it any more clearly than that.

(Or are you just trying to outdo me with more frownies? haha)

(04-25-2011, 10:27 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I just said it is natural and not wrong, but it is unmistakably STS.

(04-25-2011, 10:30 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:

(04-25-2011, 10:27 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I just said it is natural and not wrong, but it is unmistakably STS.

You have stated that several times. An explanation of how it would be "unmistakably" STS would be appreciated.

In light of what Ra has stated about actions being STS or STS based largely on intentions, how could anyone state that anything is always, unmistakably, STS?

Quote:67.11 Questioner: Then how could we solve this paradox?

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that you have no ability not to serve the Creator since all is the Creator. In your individual growth patterns appear the basic third-density choice. Further, there are overlaid memories of the positive polarizations of your home density. Thus your particular orientation is strongly polarized towards service to others and has attained wisdom as well as compassion.

You do not have merely two opposite requests for information or lack of information from this source if you listen careful to those whose voices you may hear. This is all one voice to which you resonate upon a certain frequency. This frequency determines your choice of service to the One Creator. As it happens this group’s vibratory patterns and those of Ra are compatible and enable us to speak through this instrument with your support. This is a function of free will.

A portion, seemingly of the Creator, rejoices at your choice to question us regarding the evolution of spirit. A seemingly separate portion would wish for multitudinous answers to a great range of queries of a specific nature. Another seemingly separate group of your peoples would wish this correspondence through this instrument to cease, feeling it to be of a negative nature. Upon the many other planes of existence there are those whose every fiber rejoices at your service and those such as the entity of whom you have been speaking which wish only to terminate the life upon the third-density plane of this instrument. All are the Creator. There is one vast panoply of biases and distortions, colors and hues, in an unending pattern. In the case of those with whom you, as entities and as a group, are not in resonance, you wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well. No more than this can you do for your portion of the Creator is as it is and your experience and offering of experience, to be valuable, needs be more and more a perfect representation of who you truly are. Could you, then, serve a negative entity by offering the instrument’s life? It is unlikely that you would find this a true service. Thus you may see in many cases the loving balance being achieved, the love being offered, light being sent, and the service of the service-to-self oriented entity gratefully acknowledged while being rejected as not being useful in your journey at this time. Thus you serve One Creator without paradox.

(04-25-2011, 10:12 PM)Icaro Wrote: In the case of a fully realized sts entity, they would ignore your efforts. They want nothing to do with you or your sympathy, and would take advantage of this naivete to carry out their intentions by plowing right over you.

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: If you wanna know what I'd do.... I'd probably go 'STS all up on that ...', but I'm not going to say I did it for love. No, that would be delusional.

(04-25-2011, 10:37 PM)Confused Wrote: I think the following LOO exchange speaks tellingly on the vigorously debated topic here --

Quote:67.11 Questioner: Then how could we solve this paradox?

Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that you have no ability not to serve the Creator since all is the Creator. In your individual growth patterns appear the basic third-density choice. Further, there are overlaid memories of the positive polarizations of your home density. Thus your particular orientation is strongly polarized towards service to others and has attained wisdom as well as compassion.

You do not have merely two opposite requests for information or lack of information from this source if you listen careful to those whose voices you may hear. This is all one voice to which you resonate upon a certain frequency. This frequency determines your choice of service to the One Creator. As it happens this group’s vibratory patterns and those of Ra are compatible and enable us to speak through this instrument with your support. This is a function of free will.

A portion, seemingly of the Creator, rejoices at your choice to question us regarding the evolution of spirit. A seemingly separate portion would wish for multitudinous answers to a great range of queries of a specific nature. Another seemingly separate group of your peoples would wish this correspondence through this instrument to cease, feeling it to be of a negative nature. Upon the many other planes of existence there are those whose every fiber rejoices at your service and those such as the entity of whom you have been speaking which wish only to terminate the life upon the third-density plane of this instrument. All are the Creator. There is one vast panoply of biases and distortions, colors and hues, in an unending pattern. In the case of those with whom you, as entities and as a group, are not in resonance, you wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well. No more than this can you do for your portion of the Creator is as it is and your experience and offering of experience, to be valuable, needs be more and more a perfect representation of who you truly are. Could you, then, serve a negative entity by offering the instrument’s life? It is unlikely that you would find this a true service. Thus you may see in many cases the loving balance being achieved, the love being offered, light being sent, and the service of the service-to-self oriented entity gratefully acknowledged while being rejected as not being useful in your journey at this time. Thus you serve One Creator without paradox.

(04-25-2011, 10:49 PM)Confused Wrote:

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: If you wanna know what I'd do.... I'd probably go 'STS all up on that ...', but I'm not going to say I did it for love. No, that would be delusional.

3, you amaze me with your blue-ray honesty.

(04-25-2011, 10:57 PM)Icaro Wrote: "Overpowering" a sts entity in the name of serving others (protecting another) is not sts. You are talking nonsense. Madness!

In a 3d world you cannot allow manipulation/domination, or else this planet would polarize negatively. Every sto act in a 3d world is going against sts agendas, and by your definition, this would be "overpowering". Nonsense!

(04-25-2011, 10:27 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: What I don't think you see is that sacrificing your life is also a STO action toward the aggressor.

(04-25-2011, 12:47 AM)Confused Wrote: I opine that the following two Ra exchanges speak directly to the many layered questions hiding behind your main question.

Quote:25.5 Questioner: You spoke of an Orion Confederation and of a battle being fought between the Confederation and the Orion Confederation. Is it possible to convey any concept of how this battle is fought?

Ra: I am Ra. Picture, if you will, your mind. Picture it then in total unity with all other minds of your society. You are then single-minded and that which is a weak electrical charge in your physical illusion is now an enormously powerful machine whereby thoughts may be projected as things.

In this endeavor the Orion group charges or attacks the Confederation armed with light. The result, a stand-off, as you would call it, both energies being somewhat depleted by this and needing to regroup; the negative depleted through failure to manipulate, the positive depleted through failure to accept that which is given.

25.6 Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of what you mean by the “failure to accept that which is given?”

Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded and engulfed, transformed by positive energies.

This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.

It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.

It has not been fruitful for either side. The only consequence which has been helpful is a balancing of the energies available to this planet so that these energies have less necessity to be balanced in this space/time, thus lessening the chances of planetary annihilation.

(04-25-2011, 10:58 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: (I like the character of your post, By the way. I really smile )

(04-25-2011, 11:06 PM)Icaro Wrote: Yes, it is going against their agenda. But you are arguing that this overpowering is an act of serving the self. It isn't for the self if you are doing it for another.

(04-25-2011, 10:52 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Sorry for getting caught up in wanting recognition for my views.

(04-25-2011, 11:34 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I am arguing that the STS person I would be going against IS the other self that I should be serving since this is the one I am actively engaged with. The person you are supposedly taking up for is out of the equation as far as your polarity is concerned.

(04-25-2011, 11:42 PM)Icaro Wrote: So what would you say to him and how would you attempt to transform the situation?

(04-25-2011, 10:33 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: If you act against anyone's free will, if you manipulate the actions of another directly, this is, without a doubt in my mind, serving your self and not the other self as self.

(04-25-2011, 11:53 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:

(04-25-2011, 11:34 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: I am arguing that the STS person I would be going against IS the other self that I should be serving since this is the one I am actively engaged with. The person you are supposedly taking up for is out of the equation as far as your polarity is concerned.

How did you decide that?

Person A hears the cries for help from Person B, who happens to be a child.

Person A chooses to assist Person B, and engages in the rescue of Person B from Person C.

How have you decided that Person A is 'engaged' with Person C but not with Person B?

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: They are not more powerful than love.

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: You are wrong about this,

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: One inkling of a STS thought such as overpowering their efforts sucks the love right out of you.

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: There are also so many other facets at play between m/b/s and also in time/space and Higher Selves, that what one is capable of and another isn't is indeterminable. You must love that person from the get go. Trust in love, not in winning an STS battle.

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: It is a "thought war", and the moment love leaves your thought.... serving self enters the void.

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: In the larger scheme of things, it would be ideal to accept and love anything a 3D STS oriented person throws your way. Yes it would, and your Higher Self would be better for it.

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: If you wanna know what I'd do.... I'd probably go 'STS all up on that mfer', but I'm not going to say I did it for love. No, that would be delusional.

(04-26-2011, 12:04 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: okay, well now we are rescuing the "victim" which paints a picture of gathering in my arms and running away. This is not stopping the aggressor. This in engaging with the "victim" and this is doing what this other has requested. This is a good thing.

(04-26-2011, 12:04 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: What if the "victim" shouts, "kill this guy before he kills me"?

Quote:10.1
...
Ra: I am Ra. The peoples of Maldek had a civilization somewhat similar to that of the societal complex known to you as Atlantis in that it gained much technological information and used it without care for the preservation of their sphere following to a majority extent the complex of thought, ideas, and actions which you may associate with your so-called negative polarity or the service to self. This was, however, for the most part, couched in a sincere belief/thought structure which seemed to the perception of the mind/body complexes of this sphere to be positive and of service to others. The devastation that wracked their biosphere and caused its disintegration resulted from what you call war.
....
After this experience of learn/teaching, the group decision was to place upon itself a type of what you may call karma alleviation. For this purpose they came into incarnation within your planetary sphere in what were not acceptable human forms. This then they have been experiencing until the distortions of destruction are replaced by distortions towards the desire for a less distorted vision of service to others. Since this was the conscious decision of the great majority of those beings in the Maldek experience, the transition to this planet began approximately 500,000 of your years ago and the type of body complex available at that time was used.

(04-25-2011, 10:42 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: If you wanna know what I'd do.... I'd probably go 'STS all up on that mfer', but I'm not going to say I did it for love. No, that would be delusional.

Quote:53.3
...
Ra: I am Ra. This query is marginal. We will make the concession towards information with some loss of polarity due to free will being abridged. We request that questions of this nature be kept to a minimum....

(04-26-2011, 01:00 AM)Confused Wrote: Spero, excellent post, friend.