(11-08-2014, 04:44 AM)indolering Wrote: .
Thank you, Monica, for speaking up for all the sentient creatures who are wantonly tortured and slaughtered to feed ignorant humans who appear to have no empathy towards animals they choose to consume.

(11-08-2014, 04:44 AM)indolering Wrote: Thank you, Monica, for speaking up for all the sentient creatures.

Quote:The idea of cruelty to animals does not stop at domesticated species; it is valid for all sentient creatures. And the idea that humans need meat for a healthy, complete diet is absurd and has been drilled into us by the meat and dairy industry. Unfortunately, most people are loathe to admit they have been brainwashed or have been wrong about something their whole lives, and have even been mislead, unintentionally, by their parents.

Quote:There is rhyme and reason in this creation, and part of higher consciousness is understanding the great plan which has been devised for our world.

Quote: The Scorpion and the Frog

A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the
scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The
frog asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" The scorpion
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the scorpion stings the frog. The frog feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the scorpion: "Its my nature..."

(11-08-2014, 04:44 AM)indolering Wrote: .
Thank you, Monica, for speaking up for all the sentient creatures who are wantonly tortured and slaughtered to feed ignorant humans who appear to have no empathy towards animals they choose to consume. The idea of cruelty to animals does not stop at domesticated species; it is valid for all sentient creatures. And the idea that humans need meat for a healthy, complete diet is absurd and has been drilled into us by the meat and dairy industry. Unfortunately, most people are loathe to admit they have been brainwashed or have been wrong about something their whole lives, and have even been mislead, unintentionally, by their parents.

Plants are a different 'animal' altogether - in fact, they belong to a different phylum if I remember my first biology class correctly. One of the great purposes of plants is to nourish vast amounts of the animal kingdom, and we may consume them without guilt and with assurance that their effects upon us are wholly beneficial and healing. Whereas consuming animals involves the killing of creatures who have the right to live free without harassment from humans; further, many animal foodstuffs have been shown to be deleterious to health of human beings. Plants may object to being utilized by human activity but their noble purpose in providing sustenance and healing to humanity and millions and millions of other animals is reason enough for their existence. Yet they also represent the great balancing force for the animal kingdom which takes in oxygen and exhales carbon dioxide.

There is rhyme and reason in this creation, and part of higher consciousness is understanding the great plan which has been devised for our world. Technically, morality and ethics are not universal principles, but inspired intuition tells us that there are morals which pertain to all creatures with higher consciousness, e.g., "Do no harm to living creatures, and cause the least amount of suffering during one's daily activities." This posture is correct for higher animals throughout the universe. "Live and let live." Many great people throughout history have observed that the animal-free diet is the wave of the future and is an evolutionary leap for humanity as we continue our spiritual development.

These are my thoughts and feelings, yet I try to be universal in my understanding of vital issues such as life and death and torture and slavery.

Morning Has Broken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZAsfB1Np-8

(11-08-2014, 12:00 PM)Shemaya Wrote: Thanks Parsons, can you post a link and give me your thoughts on the fable?

(11-08-2014, 05:34 AM)Ashim Wrote:

(11-08-2014, 04:44 AM)indolering Wrote: .
Thank you, Monica, for speaking up for all the sentient creatures who are wantonly tortured and slaughtered to feed ignorant humans who appear to have no empathy towards animals they choose to consume.

The animals know that they will be killed for food.
They enter incarnation fully aware of this fact.

Sure, they experience fear and add to the overall negativity of the planet, but this is their service.

Branding humans as ignorant does nothing for your cause and may be seen as quite offensive by some.

I might appear to you to have no empathy towards these creatures but I assure you this is not the case.

(11-08-2014, 08:13 PM)indolering Wrote:

(11-08-2014, 05:34 AM)Ashim Wrote:

(11-08-2014, 04:44 AM)indolering Wrote: .
Thank you, Monica, for speaking up for all the sentient creatures who are wantonly tortured and slaughtered to feed ignorant humans who appear to have no empathy towards animals they choose to consume.

The animals know that they will be killed for food.
They enter incarnation fully aware of this fact.

Sure, they experience fear and add to the overall negativity of the planet, but this is their service.

Branding humans as ignorant does nothing for your cause and may be seen as quite offensive by some.

I might appear to you to have no empathy towards these creatures but I assure you this is not the case.

I beg to differ that animals are aware that they will be eaten one day - I've seen no evidence to suggest such a thing. Their 'service' is not to be eaten but to live a natural life, free and content as God intends, in order to teach humans to also be free and content, with a peaceful morality intact.

Once a human being has reached a certain consciousness that he realizes to kill is wrong, that cruelty to others is hurtful and delays spiritual progress, one can no longer claim that his spiritual evolution (the past) continues to control his behavior - it is his own rejection of ethical demeanor, much like a drug addict knows he shouldn't be obsessed with drugs but continues using in spite of himself. This is normal as most of us require much time before integrating important realizations - but to claim that it's ok to participate in mass animal torture and slaughter, and insist that eating animals is natural for a human being, one may categorize such persons as ignorant of true spiritual values. Do no harm. This is not something one can easily refute. Values such as this are rarely expressed in our society and the opposite is often encouraged by violent and sexualized depictions. It's not offensive to be wrong - we've all been there - the really offensive behavior is the condoning of cruelty.

You yourself may have empathy toward tortured and slaughtered animals but to participate in that process through consumption speaks against one's authenticity of conviction.

Yes, no doubt many here will feel offended by my condemnation of cruelty to sentient creatures - but in truth, what they object to is their own weakness to resist old and destructive habits, and/or one's (unconscious) realization that one is mistaken in his attitude and behavior resulting in guilt, and hence feeling offense against one who proclaims the proper, loving attitude of higher consciousness.

(11-09-2014, 12:15 PM)Diana Wrote: I would like to point out one thing that keeps slipping through the cracks here. We don't even know that Jesus existed.

(11-09-2014, 12:15 PM)Diana Wrote: But to say he ate fish is crazy.

Quote:And by the way, Genesis in the bible points out that "I [God] have given you [man] every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." (King James Version)

(11-09-2014, 02:15 PM)Shemaya Wrote:

(11-09-2014, 12:15 PM)Diana Wrote: I would like to point out one thing that keeps slipping through the cracks here. We don't even know that Jesus existed.

He exists.

We don't know that Ra existed either, and yet here we all are spending countless hours of online discussion to understand the words channeled by this supposed " Ra"

(11-09-2014, 02:15 PM)Shemaya Wrote:

(11-09-2014, 12:15 PM)Diana Wrote: But to say he ate fish is crazy.

No it's not. Maybe crazy to you. But it's not crazy, insane, mad or deranged. During his time it was customary.

(11-09-2014, 02:15 PM)Shemaya Wrote:

Quote:And by the way, Genesis in the bible points out that "I [God] have given you [man] every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." (King James Version)

Although inconsistent to your whole argument, I like that quote.

Quote:That's why these threads are so entertaining for me. This is all subjective conjecture based upon ones own personal belief system yet they espouse it as gospel and look down upon those who think otherwise.

(11-10-2014, 03:54 AM)indolering Wrote:

Quote:That's why these threads are so entertaining for me. This is all subjective conjecture based upon ones own personal belief system yet they espouse it as gospel and look down upon those who think otherwise.

The main point in my post(s) is that the torture and mass slaughter of sentient creatures is definitely representative of cruelty. And those involved in any part of the process of this business of killing animals for food shares in the guilt. This is not conjecture or opinion but unassailable fact. You disagree?

(11-10-2014, 04:08 AM)Ashim Wrote: Guilt? Probably only a small minority experience this emotion, they are mostly indifferent to the cause, whilst unknowingly adding gravity to the situation.
You sir are being judgemental.
How this type of posturing can be seen as factual eludes me.
Head stuck in the rabbit hole?

Quote: Yes, I'm being judgmental and I judge that people who ................... are guilty of..................

Quote:Here you are incorrect and missing a grounded whole picture perspective, and also establishing a moralistic, divisive perspective on the issue.

Quote: When fingers are pointed at others that they are "wrong" about something

(11-10-2014, 08:55 AM)BrownEye Wrote:

Quote:Here you are incorrect and missing a grounded whole picture perspective, and also establishing a moralistic, divisive perspective on the issue.

Quote: When fingers are pointed at others that they are "wrong" about something

I love the self mirroring here.

While some become aware of higher frequencies and naturally "lighten" their way through them, the rest have chosen to remain in what they consider familiar, relying on the excuses of outdated ways and traditions. A lot of arguments across this forum are over outdated concepts and energies. Very comical.

Carry on with the show

Quote:Abiding in the midst of ignorance, thinking themselves wise and learned, fools go aimlessly hither and thither, like blind led by the blind.

— Katha Upanishad

Quote:He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. Leave them; they are blind guides [of the blind]. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

— Matthew 15:13-14,

(10-24-2014, 05:53 PM)Icaro Wrote: Awesome!

Here's what I suggest as symbols. These horses are clearly lonely..so in the name of coming together and supporting each other, we will picture one smaller horse and one larger horse enjoying each other's company under a large tree. Any suggestions? Anything to add? It would be nice to all do it at the same time, but I think intent is the only thing that matters. I will visualize it during meditation once a day or every other day.

(02-13-2015, 08:28 AM)Shemaya Wrote: On a positive note ( given the flaming that's happening in the other thread), I am making a concerted effort to be highly conscious with regards to food choices.  I speak up whenever I can to bring to light the horrible food system we have created.  I am not vegan, but I think that activists for animals have been fighting an uphill battle, and their warriorship is rife with all kinds of catalyst ( reactions and not unified ego behaviors).

So despite whatever ill feelings between us, I have gratitude for their immense compassion and effort on behalf of creation and want to personally and publicly thank Monica, Diana, Brown eye and Indolering.

(02-14-2015, 11:48 AM)K-PAX Wrote: Quickly posting this here as I need to sleep but don't want to forget -

a link I found recently (via fbk) and find it very thought provoking...

couple of quick points about me:

cruelty to animals bothers me so much if I see photos or footage of it I feel either homicidal or suicidal (literally)...
I used to belong to an anti-vivisection activist group and 'animal liberation'
I was vegetarian for 10 years (2 of which I was vegan)...

- yet because of very ill health I returned to omnivorous eating (slowly) over about 10 years - although not so much for the last few years (currently eat meat/chicken/fish a few times a year -usually when cooked for a communal meal (& by someone else) ..)
...the rest of the time I'm mostly veg (lacto/ovo)


http://theconversation.com/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: with respect Monica, your summary of the points made in that article  

(http://theconversation.com/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659)

isn't correct

it's primarily about massive crops grown for human consumption... (the analysis does include animal stock food as well - though in Australia there is more animal grazing of grasslands than intensive farming - so the main focus of the article is on plant production for HUMANS)

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: you make many points I agree with but I feel the complexity of our food situation(s) on Earth are so diverse (and mostly f#cked up) that your reply isn't comprehensive enough... (nor is what I'm saying - nor that article either)

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: (however, baby mice singing out to their dead mother and then slowly dying themselves... (so I can have vegan oatmeal for breakfast) is a very distressing truth   )
Unfortunately being vegan isn't cruelty free - unless you eat from your own garden or farm only - and control the conditions completely)
and I care about the pain of mice as much as of cows...

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: but it's a bit concerning that you speak as if you (and others) have a 'whole picture'

because the more I read and research and learn and unlearn.... I see that it's just SO complex...

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: I do agree that we have to start somewhere and it's with ourselves, our own diet and shopping choices...
but there is no 'one size fits all' solution here...  this issue is SO complex...

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: you have a LOT of passion for this issue and I really respect that... but perhaps could you look at doing (even more) (really comprehensive) research and then present solution based ideas for the specific locales/lifestyles/incomes of the people you're interacting with?

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: and also look at the way you configure your energetic 'presence' and psychology towards others on this important issue? because educating works better than guilting or confronting/ accusing people.... (haven't read whole thread yet so apologies if this isn't accurate... but I sense it is?)

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: By the way: ... humans aren't (anthropologically) herbivores but omnivorous opportunists who ate/eat according to specific local availability/traditions etc... for example, I have a friend who's Inuit/Eskimo... and he eats Narwhal .... hardly any plants... because where he lives is all snow and ice... who are we to speak against that? He hunts sustainably... the animal is free and peaceful it's whole life until a quick death and then the community has ceremony and prayers of thanks for it's life. A vegetarian/vegan diet would make him and his community very physically ill.
And additionally - these are Indigenous communities trying to rebuild from western invasion/influence.. trying to regroup and steer clear of alcohol and drugs and video violence etc.... you can't grow corn on snow... there's millennia of sacred interaction and balanced co habitation of Indigenous people and the animals around them...

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: (actually I'm put in mind of the novel 'ISHMAEL' at this point... it makes a lot of sense ..have you read it?)

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: anyhoo... as I'm saying it's COMPLEX
Indigenous peoples traditions of land usage and spiritual relationship with animals (including hunting/eating them in an ecologically balanced and profoundly reverent way as part of LIVING and ONGOING traditions of sustainable culture of millennia (over 40,000 years in the case of Australian Aboriginals); ethically informs that non-Indigenous people have NO RIGHT to interfere or impose beliefs/ideas/practices - particularly not onto peoples already imposed on by being colonised, marginalised, robbed of their lands, disconnected from, and/or striving to reconnect or remain connected to their original cultural practices and spiritual traditions; as well as trying to find a way to interact safely with (and within) a dominant culture that's disenfranchised them since invasion.

Another example of the complexity around veganism/vegetarianism? - there's a great deal of past and continuing research into plant consciousness (that I can link many interesting articles to)... that's shown/showing that they are sentient and can feel pain (to varying degrees...)-  so there's a deep teach/learning needed there as well.

(02-15-2015, 12:42 AM)K-PAX Wrote: ...now I'll start at page one of this thread and read whole way through to here (page 20 !) as time and my brain permits.