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+--- Thread: Meditation (/showthread.php?tid=8692)
RE: Meditation - AnthroHeart - 03-10-2014
If we have physical pain, how do we accept that to where we do not suffer? I guess an example is those monks who lit themselves on fire and die as martyrs that way. It does not seem to cause them discomfort.
(03-10-2014, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Suffering is due to lack of acceptance in the first place silly.
RE: Meditation - Dani - 03-10-2014
@Isis: That may be true. The idea that we are all "actors and actresses" is interesting.
(03-10-2014, 12:56 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: If we have physical pain, how do we accept that to where we do not suffer? I guess an example is those monks who lit themselves on fire and die as martyrs that way. It does not seem to cause them discomfort.
(03-10-2014, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Suffering is due to lack of acceptance in the first place silly.
@zenmaster: "Acceptance"....of what, exactly?...
@Isis: I've never heard of monks lighting themselves on fire.
RE: Meditation - isis - 03-10-2014
(03-10-2014, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(03-10-2014, 10:33 AM)isis Wrote:Suffering is due to lack of acceptance in the first place silly.(03-09-2014, 10:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote:thanks so much, for sharing your lovely opinion *WINK*(03-09-2014, 09:34 PM)isis Wrote: in the afterlife, the ones that suffered the most must get the biggest gold medals / trophies or somethingbullshit. you dont get a medal from not being able to accept yourself. the notion is nonsense and pathetic.
i think there is a good chance that the ones that choose to accept their suffering, rather than choose to just end it & check out, get somehow rewarded (in the life after this life) for choosing to persevere
i think suffering is rarely there just bc of some flaw on our part like a "lack of acceptance"...i think it's often unavoidable & always there w/ purpose
RE: Meditation - Matt1 - 03-10-2014
Suffering exists because of our attachment to grasping and aversion. We regret the past, try to change the present or are fearful of the future. This becomes a habit of cultivating different thoughts and emotions relating to the aforementioned rather than making a conscious effort to develop and cultivate compassionate thoughts and emotions.
Trying to get quick fixes of happiness through material objects which are ultimately empty because they are impermanent as they are subject to change and do not exist in and of themselves.
This is the root cause of suffering. I believe this subject was quite well covered a few thousand years ago if my memory recalls correctly
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RE: Meditation - reeay - 03-10-2014
Feeling guilt over one's situation, that is a form of saying one's experience is unacceptable bc it's burdening others. That must add to the stress of already existing stressors. I shouldn't be like this bc it is creating more suffering and problems, etc.,. A lot of times, people who experienced violent crimes (like assault) feel that they are responsible for creating the situation and also creating some kind of burden on others due to their situation. It becomes unhealthy bc they view themselves in a light that can be very negative - like they failed themselves and others, therefor unworthy... Or that they can never do things right... Those are the type of cycle of hurt we can inflict on ourselves when we experience major catalyst. We can feel guilty and that can inform us of who we are... Only who we think we are can be a misunderstanding bc it's viewing self as being not acceptable.
Hope the road of healing and understanding will be fruitful dani
RE: Meditation - xise - 03-10-2014
There's really no substitute to going through the energy centers as Ra recommends when processing catalyst. And most catalyst can affect multiple energy centers. Red. Orange. Yellow. Green. Blue. Indigo. Violet.
Acceptance is a pretty big orange/green lesson for a lot of people. But don't underestimate the orange/yellow power/will lesson to manifest a different future. So much pain is also caused by the feeling of powerlessness and helplessness.
My biggest catalyst definitely involved acceptance, but a huge part of the catalyst involved belief in my ability to overcome it - that was more of a will/power thing.
RE: Meditation - zenmaster - 03-10-2014
Look, the romantic notion of suffering being somehow virtuous is plain stupid. We come here to 3D, experience some form of "pain" or "hurt" due to some lack of balance yet to be addressed, then dramatize this pain which results in the creation of "suffering". A suffering condition is not virtuous in itself because it involves no consciousness nor any dedication whatsoever, all it is is an ad hoc reaction to a separation imposed by one's imbalance.
(03-10-2014, 12:57 PM)Dani Wrote: @zenmaster: "Acceptance"....of what, exactly?...Of yourself.
(03-10-2014, 03:55 PM)isis Wrote: i think suffering is rarely there just bc of some flaw on our part like a "lack of acceptance"...i think it's often unavoidable & always there w/ purposeWhy do you see that as a flaw rather than an opportunity? I'm pretty sure Ra said everything is perfect.
RE: Meditation - Dani - 03-11-2014
@Matt1: There are many ways that people will try to "heal" themselves: "buying" healing through objects,having short relationships with various people,hurting others because they are hurt,self harm,as well as many other ways.
Unfortunately,like how iron sharpens iron,suffering leads to suffering. We all have instincts to fight in some way.
Having an open mind pays off throughout our lifetimes,but having that is easier said than done.
@reeay: Thank you. <3 As people who typically carry instincts to defend and fight but a secondary desire for tranquility, we can only wish for as many fruitful endeavors for peace as possible. <3
@xise: Balance is important not only for ourselves but also for those around us. If we feel unbalanced, we are less likely to give off as positive energy as possible toward others, which is why tranquility is something to strive for whenever possible.
@zenmaster: Acceptance is inevitable,even on a subconscious level. After acceptance,there is an opportunity for change that could create the best future possible. There is always room for improvement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suW_Fhv9wPU
RE: Meditation - zenmaster - 03-11-2014
(03-11-2014, 04:05 AM)Dani Wrote: @zenmaster: Acceptance is inevitable,even on a subconscious level. After acceptance,there is an opportunity for change that could create the best future possible. There is always room for improvement.Yes, we're given an infinite amount of time for that inevitable acceptance, mainly deciding to fill that time with "distraction and sleep". Meanwhile there's always the future to look forward to.
RE: Meditation - isis - 03-11-2014
(03-10-2014, 11:58 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Look, the romantic notion of suffering being somehow virtuous is plain stupid. We come here to 3D, experience some form of "pain" or "hurt" due to some lack of balance yet to be addressed, then dramatize this pain which results in the creation of "suffering". A suffering condition is not virtuous in itself because it involves no consciousness nor any dedication whatsoever, all it is is an ad hoc reaction to a separation imposed by one's imbalance.i don't see suffering as a flaw. i don't see it as something caused by not accepting something or not balancing something. i think the root cause of suffering is a need. i'm only seeing perfection here. i see it as lifting weights & growing stronger
(03-10-2014, 12:57 PM)Dani Wrote: @zenmaster: "Acceptance"....of what, exactly?...Of yourself.
(03-10-2014, 03:55 PM)isis Wrote: i think suffering is rarely there just bc of some flaw on our part like a "lack of acceptance"...i think it's often unavoidable & always there w/ purposeWhy do you see that as a flaw rather than an opportunity? I'm pretty sure Ra said everything is perfect.
most times we have the choice to end the suffering by suicide. it's not "plain stupid" to think 1 could get brownie points in an afterlife for choosing to suffer instead of leave
RE: Meditation - Spaced - 03-11-2014
Suffering is a reaction to catalyst which has not been properly accepted and integrated. Change your relationship to the catalyst and suffering no longer occurs.
RE: Meditation - reeay - 03-11-2014
You can suffer when you're beginning to accept catalyst... kind of like those initial challenges of seeing self, of getting in touch with something very painful, of going thru 'healing crisis', etc.,. But the mind has deep roots... it's like you can work towards acceptance and manage to move forward to this level of acceptance then another root comes to light. But it also seems like progressive experiences of acceptance also shortens the duration of suffering. And so there is something to be said about our growth process.
Like Ken Wilber said, as we get older we can feel psychological pain much sharper (bc we can become more sensitive) but we also have more resources under our belt - more resources to use to do something about suffering. Lots of people who suffer and have yet to realize self-acceptance miss out on their already present resources bc the pain seems to trump it. But I've yet to meet a person who doesn't have this inner resource that they can tap into. Like a lot of times we choose to take the path of avoiding self of avoiding catalyst bc we think we don't have the capacity or skill or whatnot to face it... but with good olds self-searching people do tend to realize they do. Pretty remarkable.
RE: Meditation - zenmaster - 03-11-2014
Isis when you understand that "a need" is always due to lack of acceptance, then you can see how suffering is always due to lack of acceptance.
(03-11-2014, 02:18 PM)reeay Wrote: but with good olds self-searching people do tend to realize they do. Pretty remarkable.It's inevitable and axiomatic - they way the universe must cooperate with itself when permitted to do so. The glorification of or rewarding of suffering is a symptom of Ill health.
RE: Meditation - Unbound - 03-11-2014
Does that include the need the communicate and share yourself with others?
RE: Meditation - isis - 03-11-2014
(03-11-2014, 05:47 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Isis when you understand that "a need" is always due to lack of acceptance, then you can see how suffering is always due to lack of acceptance.imo even though 1 may think it's possible to have need(s), like to grow/learn & become stronger or w/e, doesn't mean it is. even though 1 may think suffering is futile & just the direct, negative, result of something doesn't mean it is
it's your opinion that suffering is always due to a lack of acceptance. it's my opinion that it rarely (if ever) is so w/e i think it's time for us to just agree to disagree on this 1
would love to kno what this quote means to u:
Quote:in your modes of perception you would perhaps more properly view the seeding of the creation as that of growth from the center or core outward.
RE: Meditation - zenmaster - 03-11-2014
(03-11-2014, 06:05 PM)Tanner Wrote: Does that include the need the communicate and share yourself with others?Of course not. It's "a need" not as per necessary generic convention for catalyst to have opportunity for expression, but rather as a compensatory reactive state to what of self has been made available to consciousness.
RE: Meditation - Unbound - 03-11-2014
I think that is a pretty important distinction to make aha
RE: Meditation - zenmaster - 03-11-2014
(03-11-2014, 06:36 PM)isis Wrote:OK well at least we're clear now.(03-11-2014, 05:47 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Isis when you understand that "a need" is always due to lack of acceptance, then you can see how suffering is always due to lack of acceptance.imo even though 1 may think it's possible to have need(s), like to grow/learn & become stronger or w/e, doesn't mean it is. even though 1 may think suffering is futile & just the direct, negative, result of something doesn't mean it is
it's your opinion that suffering is always due to a lack of acceptance. it's my opinion that it rarely (if ever) is so w/e i think it's time for us to just agree to disagree on this 1
would love to kno what this quote means to u:
Quote:in your modes of perception you would perhaps more properly view the seeding of the creation as that of growth from the center or core outward.
I interpret that quote to mean that the center is like the basic principles whereas the periphery is the pioneering or refining efforts. Ra also said that the axis of that creation is 3D.
(03-11-2014, 06:39 PM)Tanner Wrote: I think that is a pretty important distinction to make ahathat may be the case, but in the context used (in quotes) we were talking about the suffering condition which is an unconscious reaction, a dramatization of pain, due to displacement by an unaccepted aspect of self.
(03-10-2014, 12:56 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: If we have physical pain, how do we accept that to where we do not suffer? I guess an example is those monks who lit themselves on fire and die as martyrs that way. It does not seem to cause them discomfort.Suffering due to physical pain is typically due to ignored catalyst or of a particular allegorical nature that reinforces a direction of seeking which leads in the direction of further balancing catalyst. Once that pain-as-catalyst is worked with, and accepted, it simply becomes unnecessary. And if somehow the root cause of pain is not allegorical, and not a cause for catalyst due to lack of acceptance, then there will be no need for suffering due to its presence.
(03-10-2014, 12:48 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Suffering is due to lack of acceptance in the first place silly.
RE: Meditation - Dani - 03-12-2014
Isis wrote:
i don't see suffering as a flaw. i don't see it as something caused by not accepting something or not balancing something. i think the root cause of suffering is a need. i'm only seeing perfection here. i see it as lifting weights & growing stronger
most times we have the choice to end the suffering by suicide. it's not "plain stupid" to think 1 could get brownie points in an afterlife for choosing to suffer instead of leave
@Isis: Suffering is said to be the given name for reactions of internal sensations and brain chemicals by external forces that cause discomfort. However, this is only part of the definition; the other part describing suffering as these reactions from recollection of such feelings. In other words, suffering can not only be on a physical level but it can also be on an emotional level.
As humans,since we carry instincts as well as surprising psychological abilities,we may be able to help ourselves to "feel less" of our physical and emotional pain,as stoicism seems to prove,in a way. For example,what has been mentioned above about monks lighting themselves on fire and seeming to not react in pain.
I've heard of a story of a man who,supposedly,didn't react to another man breaking his leg. I don't know if this story of stoicism is true or fiction,but the idea that someone of human nature can cause their minds to "trick" their body into not feeling pain from something as intense as repeatedly breaking a bone is very interesting. In Psychology and Psychiatry,there may be a touch of this idea when someone in such a profession tells their client that,even though some pain may linger,there is a way to "let go" of at least a fraction of our emotional,psychosomatic and even genetic aching through changes in brain chemistry,which could be accomplished through internal or external chemicals.
There have been tests to prove the idea that certain phobias can be passed down through generations. If the mind is able to work that well against the animal kingdom,perhaps there is a way to allow that kind of power to help it?
RE: Meditation - Dani - 03-12-2014
Tanner wrote:
Does that include the need the communicate and share yourself with others?
[/quote]
@Tanner: Personally,I believe that the desire to communicate about problems that we face is alright. However,comparing oneself to others in a way that degrades them such as "rating" one's own problems as "worse" can lead to trouble. It is best to communicate with understanding and an incredibly open mind that holds consideration and compassion.
Empathy is important;when balanced with understanding of a situation and balance of emotions,it is the key to having the opposite of violence.
I truly think that these replies are interesting.
RE: Meditation - Dani - 03-13-2014
During meditation after stretching and yoga last night (I'm more nocturnal than diurnal), most things went well until scary thoughts-mostly memories-came up without much reason.
It's amazing that the mind can create and pull up random and unexpected things during meditation,much like dreaming.
The headache that I had prior to meditation lingered afterward,but lessened. Even though I've had some problems with this dysfunctional shunt of mine lately,meditation went pretty well.
That's good,especially considering that my sister walked in,"waking me up" from what I was doing.
Hopefully,there won't be many problems today,either.
I hope that all of you are having a nice day.
I just remembered what tomorrow is.
Just for one day-any day-I'd love to get these thoughts out of my head.
I'm sure that today,tomorrow,and the following days are nice for some,which is great.
Just like past years,I refuse to make these days negative because I love my family. <3
RE: Meditation - AnthroHeart - 03-13-2014
That's interesting that your meditations are like dreaming. I've wanted to enter time/space through meditation.
RE: Meditation - xise - 03-13-2014
I've entered dream-states while meditating. It seems to be a particular form of meditation. I'm no expert on it though.
RE: Meditation - AnthroHeart - 03-13-2014
I don't think I've entered a dream state fully conscious while meditating. I usually fall asleep when I do. Do you have full control of your surroundings when you're in the dream state during meditation?
RE: Meditation - xise - 03-13-2014
I've never had a lucid meditative dream-state.
It's more like living a bunch of memories from other's people's lives, but if you try really hard you can remember hey I'm in some dream-state and I'm some different real life person.
But it feels more like a movie-reel of memory of something that already happened and not like a place you can manifest stuff like you can in dreams.
Or at least, that's what I have personally experienced. I've experienced the state maybe in one tenth of my meditations.
RE: Meditation - Spaced - 03-13-2014
(03-13-2014, 03:46 PM)xise Wrote: I've never had a lucid meditative dream-state.
It's more like living a bunch of memories from other's people's lives, but if you try really hard you can remember hey I'm in some dream-state and I'm some different real life person.
But it feels more like a movie-reel of memory of something that already happened and not like a place you can manifest stuff like you can in dreams.
Or at least, that's what I have personally experienced.
I've had similar experiences, seems more like being shown something than participating in something (like a dream)
RE: Meditation - AnthroHeart - 03-13-2014
It makes me wonder if meditative experiences are still confined to space/time even though they seem dreamlike. After all, I have an imagination and can manifest anything in my thoughts. But it does not become my outer world. It's still an internal process.
Fully lucid meditative experiences are probably relatively rare. I can't seem to get that deep in my meditations, because I am always so energized. I feel a pressure on my chakras of the energy that flows through me, and hear a high pitch in my ears, both of them, the same level of intensity.
RE: Meditation - Dani - 03-16-2014
Gemini Wolf wrote:
(03-13-2014, 03:13 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: That's interesting that your meditations are like dreaming. I've wanted to enter time/space through meditation.
Meditation isn't always easy,but it's nice to be close to dreaming without "nightmares" that wake me up.
Spaced wrote:
(03-13-2014, 03:48 PM)Spaced Wrote:(03-13-2014, 03:46 PM)xise Wrote: I've never had a lucid meditative dream-state.
It's more like living a bunch of memories from other's people's lives, but if you try really hard you can remember hey I'm in some dream-state and I'm some different real life person.
But it feels more like a movie-reel of memory of something that already happened and not like a place you can manifest stuff like you can in dreams.
Or at least, that's what I have personally experienced.
I've had similar experiences, seems more like being shown something than participating in something (like a dream)
I tried contemplative meditation...or whatever it's called; someone recommended it. I apologize. My memory was already slightly faulty at times before seizures.
Gemini Wolf wrote:
(03-13-2014, 04:38 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: It makes me wonder if meditative experiences are still confined to space/time even though they seem dreamlike. After all, I have an imagination and can manifest anything in my thoughts. But it does not become my outer world. It's still an internal process.
Fully lucid meditative experiences are probably relatively rare. I can't seem to get that deep in my meditations, because I am always so energized. I feel a pressure on my chakras of the energy that flows through me, and hear a high pitch in my ears, both of them, the same level of intensity.
My ears ring,but not from chakras. I've never tried meditation with chakras.
I'm looking into tai chi.
On March 14th,I had some shunt pain for about 1/2 of the day. At night,only for a second,I went completely blind,then felt a strange change of emotion. Today,my head hurt more than usual in various places around my skull. I hope this isn't a warning.
My father finally has health insurance.
I would have liked to have been there when he got it....but,he has insurance! He has mentioned needing to go to the doctor often now.
A part of me is happy now.
RE: Meditation - Dani - 03-20-2014
I've been having a lot of problems with my shunt lately,which are concerning me but aren't as bad as other times.
This shunt is tight against my collarbone,hurts at times while affecting my vision and concentration,and is closer to my ear even more now than before. About half a year ago,I could fit my finger between my shunt and the cartilage of my ear (with caution,of course). Now,the measurement of that space is the distance between my shunt and my jawbone. Only half of my fingertip fits in the "space" behind my ear. I've been watching what I eat since my head (entire head,not only forehead) hurts after eating. This also happens from not sleeping much. Sometimes,certain spots around my head will hurt,especially the left side because of how tight my shunt is and the right and left side toward the back. The reason for the left side hurting is something that I can understand because of shunt migration,but the fact that the right side will hurt so much whether I've eaten or not doesn't make much sense. Other places also hurt close to the intensity of the aforementioned spots most of the time.
Focusing is so difficult. Often,my body continues to move as through it has a mind of its own...like I'm not a part of it.
I'm afraid of meditation because I'm around my family too much,especially now because of a new addition to our family.
Finally,our family has a "hypoallergenic" puppy:a female Soft-Coated Wheaten Terrier.
RE: Meditation - Dani - 03-23-2014
I'm still looking for answers....aren't we all?....<3