(08-18-2013, 03:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: How do you balance future experience? Actually how do you even balance experience? With balancing, you are creating a new way to accept experience.
The "veil" is due to our physical disposition of limited access to our time/space interiority. It is a point-like, pin-hole, short-sighted "peek" lacking the broad overview of a map. It provides only an asymptotic approach to our inner terrain.

Time as "changes" is time as the quality of duration. Duration is just one psychological aspect of time. There are other purely psychological expressions as well. There are physical aspects too, just as there are psychological qualities of the physical aspects.
Time and space are the same thing but made distinct from their mutual identity through our acceptance of experience.

(08-18-2013, 04:47 PM)Sagittarius Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 03:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: How do you balance future experience? Actually how do you even balance experience? With balancing, you are creating a new way to accept experience.
The "veil" is due to our physical disposition of limited access to our time/space interiority. It is a point-like, pin-hole, short-sighted "peek" lacking the broad overview of a map. It provides only an asymptotic approach to our inner terrain.

Time as "changes" is time as the quality of duration. Duration is just one psychological aspect of time. There are other purely psychological expressions as well. There are physical aspects too, just as there are psychological qualities of the physical aspects.
Time and space are the same thing but made distinct from their mutual identity through our acceptance of experience.

So I guess my question is I get that the veil increases friction which makes for a more valuable experience in regards to working on the personality, you say it is to create a new way of accepting experience would you be able to elaborate on that? Are there any mechanics mirrored throughout matter that replicate this ? I hear crystallization from Ra but I can't seam to make sense of the term in it's context yet.

(08-18-2013, 04:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:47 PM)Sagittarius Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 03:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: How do you balance future experience? Actually how do you even balance experience? With balancing, you are creating a new way to accept experience.
The "veil" is due to our physical disposition of limited access to our time/space interiority. It is a point-like, pin-hole, short-sighted "peek" lacking the broad overview of a map. It provides only an asymptotic approach to our inner terrain.

Time as "changes" is time as the quality of duration. Duration is just one psychological aspect of time. There are other purely psychological expressions as well. There are physical aspects too, just as there are psychological qualities of the physical aspects.
Time and space are the same thing but made distinct from their mutual identity through our acceptance of experience.

So I guess my question is I get that the veil increases friction which makes for a more valuable experience in regards to working on the personality, you say it is to create a new way of accepting experience would you be able to elaborate on that? Are there any mechanics mirrored throughout matter that replicate this ? I hear crystallization from Ra but I can't seam to make sense of the term in it's context yet.

Yes but were you going to answer my question first?

(08-18-2013, 04:46 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:30 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:26 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:22 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:18 PM)zenmaster Wrote: How?

There is only one of us here.

As in identification of the mechanism or action of principle behind the claim not an appeal to infinities (which is a waste of experience).

So why did we decide to call this a Universe?

That is orthogonal to the question, but you coyly chose it because it is a concept of unity and in continuing the appeal to infinities any concept of unity can be a finger pointer to infinity. Used in such a way, it's really an abuse of the intuition. As Ra said, the function of intuition is to inform intelligence. And the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception.

(08-18-2013, 05:07 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:46 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:30 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:26 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:22 PM)Ashim Wrote: There is only one of us here.

As in identification of the mechanism or action of principle behind the claim not an appeal to infinities (which is a waste of experience).

So why did we decide to call this a Universe?

That is orthogonal to the question, but you coyly chose it because it is a concept of unity and in continuing the appeal to infinities any concept of unity can be a finger pointer to infinity. Used in such a way, it's really an abuse of the intuition. As Ra said, the function of intuition is to inform intelligence. And the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception.

Dunno zen. In fact it's a toss up at the moment between an evening of discussion with you, or a long, drawn out argument with my wife.
My wife is pretty good looking so that tips the odds in her favour.
The chances of getting a little kiss and cuddle are probably equally slim with both of you, so I'll head off into bed.
Thanks for your time my friend.

(08-18-2013, 05:02 PM)Sagittarius Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:47 PM)Sagittarius Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 03:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: How do you balance future experience? Actually how do you even balance experience? With balancing, you are creating a new way to accept experience.
The "veil" is due to our physical disposition of limited access to our time/space interiority. It is a point-like, pin-hole, short-sighted "peek" lacking the broad overview of a map. It provides only an asymptotic approach to our inner terrain.

Time as "changes" is time as the quality of duration. Duration is just one psychological aspect of time. There are other purely psychological expressions as well. There are physical aspects too, just as there are psychological qualities of the physical aspects.
Time and space are the same thing but made distinct from their mutual identity through our acceptance of experience.

So I guess my question is I get that the veil increases friction which makes for a more valuable experience in regards to working on the personality, you say it is to create a new way of accepting experience would you be able to elaborate on that? Are there any mechanics mirrored throughout matter that replicate this ? I hear crystallization from Ra but I can't seam to make sense of the term in it's context yet.

Yes but were you going to answer my question first?

Balancing future experience perhaps should be changed to balancing the thought of future experience. The future I guess is not a constant with what you do now changing forever continuously the future.

My idea of balancing is seeing two conflicting views or ideas or events and transcending both the effect of looking at it negatively and positively, balancing the 2 sides to a truer representation of self.

(08-18-2013, 05:44 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 05:07 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:46 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:30 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:26 PM)zenmaster Wrote: As in identification of the mechanism or action of principle behind the claim not an appeal to infinities (which is a waste of experience).

So why did we decide to call this a Universe?

That is orthogonal to the question, but you coyly chose it because it is a concept of unity and in continuing the appeal to infinities any concept of unity can be a finger pointer to infinity. Used in such a way, it's really an abuse of the intuition. As Ra said, the function of intuition is to inform intelligence. And the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception.

Dunno zen. In fact it's a toss up at the moment between an evening of discussion with you, or a long, drawn out argument with my wife.
My wife is pretty good looking so that tips the odds in her favour.
The chances of getting a little kiss and cuddle are probably equally slim with both of you, so I'll head off into bed.
Thanks for your time my friend.

No problem. Despite your frustration, the "pre-rational" approach really can only ever merely suggest or point toward vague infinities. If you are satisfied with resonating with that which is fully ambiguous and may exist in potential experience, rather than that which exists in actual experience, there really can be no beneficial discussion.

---

(08-18-2013, 05:02 PM)Sagittarius Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:47 PM)Sagittarius Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 03:07 PM)zenmaster Wrote: How do you balance future experience? Actually how do you even balance experience? With balancing, you are creating a new way to accept experience.
The "veil" is due to our physical disposition of limited access to our time/space interiority. It is a point-like, pin-hole, short-sighted "peek" lacking the broad overview of a map. It provides only an asymptotic approach to our inner terrain.

Time as "changes" is time as the quality of duration. Duration is just one psychological aspect of time. There are other purely psychological expressions as well. There are physical aspects too, just as there are psychological qualities of the physical aspects.
Time and space are the same thing but made distinct from their mutual identity through our acceptance of experience.

So I guess my question is I get that the veil increases friction which makes for a more valuable experience in regards to working on the personality, you say it is to create a new way of accepting experience would you be able to elaborate on that? Are there any mechanics mirrored throughout matter that replicate this ? I hear crystallization from Ra but I can't seam to make sense of the term in it's context yet.

Yes but were you going to answer my question first?

Balancing future experience perhaps should be changed to balancing the thought of future experience. The future I guess is not a constant with what you do now changing forever continuously the future.

My idea of balancing is seeing two conflicting views or ideas or events and transcending both the effect of looking at it negatively and positively, balancing the 2 sides to a truer representation of self.

Yes, the veil makes us take stock of or acknowledge and accept our actual dispositions through conscious confrontation between our determined experience and our unconscious (potential) minds. Given that, third density can be considered the only environment where things can be considered the most "real" in this octave. That is, the provided limitations of focus in relationship between mind, body and spirit genuinely relies on our self-determination and effort which (must) co/creates something at the very core of our identity.

The future really only exist as an idea, like an apprehension, or a suggestion or a guess. Guessing (and planning) can be useful, but it is important to realize that identifying with an idea such as "the future" binds us to it in a manner which also may not serve us well. You can sort of see that pathology with the emotions of "hope" and "fear" which have a purpose in distracting from learning about the nature of things.

By "new way of accepting experience", I meant that experience is interpreted differently as distortion is lessened. As refinements are made, the objects of experience even take on completely different roles. I would say that evolution is constantly exemplifying the evolutionary process, to the limits of their expressions, starting with the basic photon. It would seem that the crystal is the pinnacle of the 1D form due to its a certain amount of complexity and supporting, interrelated structure - pure and efficiently constructed. Apparently, it also has significant "presence" in time/space as well so it is utilizing more of the density from which it exists than other 1D materials.

(08-18-2013, 08:52 PM)Sagittarius Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 05:44 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 05:07 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:46 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:30 PM)Ashim Wrote: So why did we decide to call this a Universe?

That is orthogonal to the question, but you coyly chose it because it is a concept of unity and in continuing the appeal to infinities any concept of unity can be a finger pointer to infinity. Used in such a way, it's really an abuse of the intuition. As Ra said, the function of intuition is to inform intelligence. And the unbridled predominance of intuition will tend to keep an entity from the greater polarizations due to the vagaries of intuitive perception.

Dunno zen. In fact it's a toss up at the moment between an evening of discussion with you, or a long, drawn out argument with my wife.
My wife is pretty good looking so that tips the odds in her favour.
The chances of getting a little kiss and cuddle are probably equally slim with both of you, so I'll head off into bed.
Thanks for your time my friend.

No problem. Despite your frustration, the "pre-rational" approach really can only ever merely suggest or point toward vague infinities. If you are satisfied with resonating with that which is fully ambiguous and may exist in potential experience, rather than that which exists in actual experience, there really can be no beneficial discussion.

---

(08-18-2013, 05:02 PM)Sagittarius Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:49 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:47 PM)Sagittarius Wrote: So I guess my question is I get that the veil increases friction which makes for a more valuable experience in regards to working on the personality, you say it is to create a new way of accepting experience would you be able to elaborate on that? Are there any mechanics mirrored throughout matter that replicate this ? I hear crystallization from Ra but I can't seam to make sense of the term in it's context yet.

Yes but were you going to answer my question first?

Balancing future experience perhaps should be changed to balancing the thought of future experience. The future I guess is not a constant with what you do now changing forever continuously the future.

My idea of balancing is seeing two conflicting views or ideas or events and transcending both the effect of looking at it negatively and positively, balancing the 2 sides to a truer representation of self.

Yes, the veil makes us take stock of or acknowledge and accept our actual dispositions through conscious confrontation between our determined experience and our unconscious (potential) minds. Given that, third density can be considered the only environment where things can be considered the most "real" in this octave. That is, the provided limitations of focus in relationship between mind, body and spirit genuinely relies on our self-determination and effort which (must) co/creates something at the very core of our identity.

The future really only exist as an idea, like an apprehension, or a suggestion or a guess. Guessing (and planning) can be useful, but it is important to realize that identifying with an idea such as "the future" binds us to it in a manner which also may not serve us well. You can sort of see that pathology with the emotions of "hope" and "fear" which have a purpose in distracting from learning about the nature of things.

By "new way of accepting experience", I meant that experience is interpreted differently as distortion is lessened. As refinements are made, the objects of experience even take on completely different roles. I would say that evolution is constantly exemplifying the evolutionary process, to the limits of their expressions, starting with the basic photon. It would seem that the crystal is the pinnacle of the 1D form due to its a certain amount of complexity and supporting, interrelated structure - pure and efficiently constructed. Apparently, it also has significant "presence" in time/space as well so it is utilizing more of the density from which it exists than other 1D materials.

Ahh my thanks that bottom paragraph made it a lot clearer. Particularly the part about refinements causing the object of experience to take on different roles. So by the distortions lessening does this automatically mean a truer way of self is found and this is expressed as the different interpretations, which in turn opens up the view of the new role.

Or as Rie put it you rewrite your experience of time to more truthfully and wholly express your current understanding of experience. This being a function of the mind but it also has it's representation in the physical/body with as you said starting from the photon and evolution carrying it's course allowing the body to fit these new roles. So both of these are reciprocal and spirit is reciprocal with them both combined.

I see what you mean about the crystal as well.

(08-18-2013, 08:12 PM)rie Wrote: Curious how hope is instrumental for people who are depressed, lost, in pain, who want to end this life etc., like a self-prescribed medicine for the moment. It has its utility. But it also can be a double-edge sword that can lead to high expectation and sometimes be a 'crazy-making' experience.

(08-18-2013, 08:12 PM)rie Wrote: I can see another aspect to hope and fear, which is the issue of faith. Faith in the process of life, faith that we will grow to be able to work with catalyst and move on, etc. Once there is faith, that fear of 'jumping off a cliff' (i.e., do something you fear) could actually be seen as 'hopping down the stairs'. You change the meaning of an experience and it will effect how you remember/understand past and present experiences. That would impact the way you handle the present moment, thus change the course of future (from standpoint that the path is to continue like before or make a change). So changing meaning of experience thru seeing things from new perspectives could shift a whole lot.

(08-18-2013, 08:12 PM)rie Wrote: The brain itself has no conception of time, time is an interpretation. So it's possible to re-write/edit the narrative/meaning of experience at any time.

(08-18-2013, 04:30 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:26 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:22 PM)Ashim Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:18 PM)zenmaster Wrote:

(08-18-2013, 04:16 PM)Ashim Wrote: The concept of Unity.

How?

There is only one of us here.

As in identification of the mechanism or action of principle behind the claim not an appeal to infinities (which is a waste of experience).

So why did we decide to call this a Universe?

(08-18-2013, 08:12 PM)rie Wrote: Curious how hope is instrumental for people who are depressed, lost, in pain, who want to end this life etc., like a self-prescribed medicine for the moment. It has its utility. But it also can be a double-edge sword that can lead to high expectation and sometimes be a 'crazy-making' experience. I can see another aspect to hope and fear, which is the issue of faith. Faith in the process of life, faith that we will grow to be able to work with catalyst and move on, etc. Once there is faith, that fear of 'jumping off a cliff' (i.e., do something you fear) could actually be seen as 'hopping down the stairs'. You change the meaning of an experience and it will effect how you remember/understand past and present experiences. That would impact the way you handle the present moment, thus change the course of future (from standpoint that the path is to continue like before or make a change). So changing meaning of experience thru seeing things from new perspectives could shift a whole lot. The brain itself has no conception of time, time is an interpretation. So it's possible to re-write/edit the narrative/meaning of experience at any time.