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+--- Thread: 1000's of Dolphins Congregating (/showthread.php?tid=6642)
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RE: 1000's of Dolphins Congregating - Ruth - 02-23-2013
(02-23-2013, 10:14 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:(02-23-2013, 08:25 PM)zenmaster Wrote: I've talked about this a few times before. I don't look at hope as either silly or counterproductive, because in the context of the "hoper" that's all they've been able to give themselves to work with about something they feel is desirable. It is at least "something" which seems to sustain and help people cope, when they otherwise might not be able to relate to that aspect of themselves at all. It's really the opposite of fear. They are both distancing mechanisms. The thing is, it is impossible to learn when hope or fear are present, because, for example, curiosity is (and must be) absent in both cases.
Interesting perspective, thanks! I'll have to ponder that last sentence.
I don't see how feeling hope or fear precludes curiosity. Please explain why you say this.
I have felt fear many times while still feeling curious about and investigating a strange noise in the woods all the while hoping that it wasn't a bear that would eat me.
RE: 1000's of Dolphins Congregating - zenmaster - 02-23-2013
(02-23-2013, 10:55 PM)Ruth Wrote: I don't see how feeling hope or fear precludes curiosity. Please explain why you say this.I say it to explain something about the mechanisms of hope and fear.
(02-23-2013, 10:55 PM)Ruth Wrote: I have felt fear many times while still feeling curious about and investigating a strange noise in the woods all the while hoping that it wasn't a bear that would eat me.First, they are not simultaneous, nor capable of being simultaneous. So no, not "all the while". Unconscious reactions can be mixed with conscious attention, over time, but they don't actually occur at the same time.
Similarly, the the hope or fear (driven by still-unconscious aspects of self) precludes curiosity of their origin.
RE: 1000's of Dolphins Congregating - Monica - 02-24-2013
(02-23-2013, 11:54 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(02-23-2013, 10:55 PM)Ruth Wrote: I don't see how feeling hope or fear precludes curiosity. Please explain why you say this.I say it to explain something about the mechanisms of hope and fear.
(02-23-2013, 10:55 PM)Ruth Wrote: I have felt fear many times while still feeling curious about and investigating a strange noise in the woods all the while hoping that it wasn't a bear that would eat me.First, they are not simultaneous, nor capable of being simultaneous. So no, not "all the while". Unconscious reactions can be mixed with conscious attention, over time, but they don't actually occur at the same time.
Similarly, the the hope or fear (driven by still-unconscious aspects of self) precludes curiosity of their origin.
What is this based on? Psychology? Your observation? or...?
RE: 1000's of Dolphins Congregating - zenmaster - 02-24-2013
(02-24-2013, 12:45 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: What is this based on? Psychology? Your observation? or...?Well it's a simple observation. The main point is about how hope and fear, as active, unconscious coping mechanisms, can not allow the type of attention necessary for learning/curiosity. This is simply because that which causes the hope/fear is the same thing which would be allowed attention (i.e. essentially "you"). The progression of consciousness entails ever more recognition of that which was previously not considered "you" (which, up to that point of recognition, was a candidate of hope/fear).