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+--- Thread: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. (/showthread.php?tid=4723)
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RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - 3DMonkey - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 10:43 AM)ShinAr Wrote: When you hear someone like Azrael or any other person with an ancient consciousness speak of such things as thought and its implicit aspect of creation, one should consider what they have to say with deeper thought.
When he speaks of thought he is not talking about it the way that most humans comprehend thought but in a much grander scale.
I won't get into the same old STS debate that the same old proponents of it would love to rehash with a lot of Ra quotes that have not been appropriately discerned. It would be futile as most of those already know the argument well and have made their choice to think the way they do.
But with regard to thought I would remind you that it is thought and the power of it that is behind the entire universe. This is the creative aspect to which Azreal is referring you.
I would say that thinking bad to transform them into good is just an excuse to think bad and experience it for your self, and than have an excuse as to why you did that.
Bad cannot be transformed into good, whether done in the mind or the real world.
Discerning whether a thing is good or bad does not always necessitate the experiencing of it. I do not think that one would benefit from thinking about raping anther human being, so that you can justify that thought by suggesting that now you know how wrong it is. Why did you have to experience such a thing in your mind to come to that understanding? Were you not naturally horrified and repulsed by the thought in the first place?
There is no one more ancient than another. You choose to perceive this. You choose to think this. You choose to believe this. These choices in thought make up your world.
Visualization is an effective technique. We are not separate in thought. Therefore a dream of an act against an Other is a metaphor for an act against our Self. The thought that is explored is our own, and literally has nothing to do with the Other Being. The "Others" in our thoughts are not outside of ourselves.
You have the power of will to place "me" revered above all thoughts in you at this moment. Who am "I" in you? What does lashing out against what people write on a forum translate to in your thought of your existence? Go deeper.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-19-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - 3DMonkey - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 03:24 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Monkey, but if all is the mind, then all others "within" are actually also reflections of those "without". Have you ever considered that? Say you imagine doing some horrible thing to a nameless person you just made up.
Most would say, oh it's just in my mind, just my thoughts and has nothing to do with anyone else. Well, if all is Mind, and there is only One Mind, then to suggest that your thoughts are not connected to the existences of all other Thought-forms is to somehow suggest that others are not also within that One Mind.
Yes, I understand this very well. This is an essential part of my perspective, I assure you.
(04-19-2012, 03:24 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Since all is thought, then reasonably we could say that imagining doing something horrible to someone is indeed just as equivalent as physically doing it, as it is all just interacting Thought-forms anyways.
No, I would not think anywhere near the equivalent
(04-19-2012, 03:24 PM)TheEternal Wrote: If I want to take this in to the context of fields of consciousness, I would also suggest that "Thoughts" or the "Thought World", is like the Astral or other realms and is a malleable dimension. It is something that is actually existence and interactive, along with every other dimension. When you hold a thought in your mind, it's not just "in your head", you project and signal that thought and put it out in to the world.
We are, for the most part, completely unaware of how this goes out. This is the "spirit". It is not something we are capable of being aware of, and yet we are capable of receiving it in a completely unaware way. Those with more awareness tend to be called "psychic" using various terms.
(04-19-2012, 03:24 PM)TheEternal Wrote: If you have a lot of these pent up negative thoughts, and as Spero specified nicely, and you do not "distill the love and light" from them, it is possible for them to pent up and be released as charges. This quite literally then creates antagonistic Lower Astral entities, which then go off in to the world to amplify and terrorize others who have negative blockages.
What pens them up? The practices described in the material as STS is what you are describing here. Simply exploring the negative thoughts is not what pens them up and releases them in the way you describe. It is how they are treated within the polarization of the mind. Any, ANY, thought can be polarized positive or negative. This is what is being taught by Ra.
(04-19-2012, 03:24 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Keeping this in mind, if one is constantly thinking "bad" thoughts, then no "distillation" will be taking place. The cup will fill, overflow, refill, overflow, again and again.
Now, I am going to pointedly agree with Shin'Ar, that you cannot take something "bad" and turn it "good", in the way we are expressing it.
Say for example, since it is a stark image, there is a scene of rape. Now, this could be "justified" on either side of the spectrum, but the justification has little to do with the fact of the occurence that is the rape. You cannot imagine killing someone, and then "justify" it, say that you would do it for "good", and then consider that act of killing to no longer be an act of murder. You cannot gain knowledge from something "bad" by trying to make it "good", because the lesson and knowledge within something "bad" is the very fact that that is what it is!
You would learn nothing from attempting to think of rape as a "hard lesson in love", or as "necessary for the individual", because that instantly denies the very horrifying atrocity that a rape actually is, and the immense, painful impact it has on every layer of an individual.
Now, if you think of harming or manipulating others in your mind, and you come to no conclusion that such a thing is "not good", then I can absolutely see how Shin'Ar is expressing the trap in this way of thinking, as it gives one a license to abandon one's values "when appropriate", or moreso, when desirable or to one's advantage.
This is a huge thing I have actually struggled with myself, and I have to say, through everything I have come to a simple maxim: "Energy follows Thought". You want to think about violence, manipulating and hurting others? Well, thank you for inputting those thought-forms in to our planetary sphere, the cleaners will be by shortly.
This expresses only one possibility. Each Being is different. A person that uses catalyst of Mind in this singular way can continue this way until compassion is reached. It is possible, but work must be committed to.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-19-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Oldern - 04-19-2012
TheEternal, I need to react to that post above without actually quoting it, as it would be too huge for that.
"Bad cannot be transformed into good, whether done in the mind or the real world."
This quote needs very, very careful examination, before we draw any conclusions from it. If I consider the realms, starting with physical, it goes something like this:
-Physical realm - "real" consequences, very linear in terms of time and space. From point a to point b, you need to experience all the points within, all the "time" within. You are under self-imposed limitations.
-Astral realm (*) - "real" consequences, very non-linear in terms of space, do not know if about time as well. You can move around freely, but you still have your own conscious drawing the conclusions from what you experience.
-Dream realm (*) - "non-real" consequences, very real experience, non-linear in terms of space AND time. You get a full intense ride, you can work inside it if you are an adept of this kind of permission slip, right?
So, I think that we can easily conclude that everything that is "done" (bad or good) is done to the Self (other or "same", does not matter), and no real damage is done in the process. If you choose to do something as an act of fear, with a motivation of fear (trying to control others, etc), then it is done in a "negative" orientation, no matter what realm you do that. The experience will be real, but there is no real damage done to the Oversoul itself, right? How could that happen anyway...
So no, if we look at that sentence strictly, then no, the bad wont be turned good. But the consciousness evolving will not go through invoking bad deeds if the polarization happens, and if the fear-based belief systems are falling down, one after each other.
So in that sense, I think, there is work to be done. I, personally, in all this 10-12 months since introduced to the Law of One, imagined a lot of things, going to the astral planes, trying astral projection, trying to work in dreams (this has yet to be done in a "controlled" manner, but I am not sure at this point if I really need control at all). But it never occured to me to try hurting anyone. Not a single hit, blow was made. If we take the quote, then someone who is trying to work with this concept and still retains fear-based belief systems, then he will indeed get in conflicts, imagine fights or hell, even rape. But the question is: what does he do with it?
If he recognizes that fear drives him, certain fears, then he can lose those fears. If he suppresses the fear but does not deal with it, it WILL materialize sooner or later. That is never good.
At this point, I am lost at to what to say. I have nothing to argue against. But I started typing this post as I felt that I need to understand this concept deeper, and maybe some followup will point out to what I am missing. So bad deeds wont turn to good deeds, but what are the deeds without beings to experience them? And if the beings improve, what does it mean if something is "bad" or "good" if all it does is provide experience/catalyst to both sides?
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Turtle - 04-19-2012
To respond to Shin'Ar, I created this thread to share the quote and it's bolded lines with all those on this forum. I felt inspired to do so because the quotation basically explains HOW to go about living one's purpose, through the following of our desires with right action.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Ruth - 04-19-2012
Turtle - not to worry. I meant it, seriously, yesterday when I told you that you posted it just for me. It had a special message for me from Creator.
Love and light!
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-19-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - 3DMonkey - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 04:19 PM)TheEternal Wrote: I'm not sure how it's conceived as un-equivalent. That is to diverge between the continuum of mind, body and spirit. I understand, it may not have a POLARIZED impact, but is all we think about our own polarization, and not the make-up of our thoughts and being?
So, because there is unawareness it suddenly "doesn't count"? :/
Well, this can happen even if the individual is not conscously on the STS path, which was more what I was getting at. I was more trying to get to the point of the flow of thought patterns, in that an individual's thought patterns are reflected of the biases of their polarization. That is what polarization is, an attraction to one end of the spectrum or the other, and thus attracting.
Of course, all beings are different, and by all means I am more than aware that we are only going as fast as the "slowest" or how shall I say, most scenic routed of us, if you noticed my very last sentence which summed up my total thoughts on the subject nicely.Sure, every Being is different, but part of that balance means that Beings CHANGE, and they do so through the opportunity of Catalyst, which I am merely lovingly providing at this point in time. I do not seek to change anyone, such a thing is inevitable in every moment, why do work that is already done?
Now I'm confused. We are talking about catalyst. The desires can't be stopped. They need to be explored consciously in order to achieve polarization.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-19-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - 3DMonkey - 04-19-2012
"Catalyst being processed by the body is catalyst for the body. Catalyst being processed by the mind is catalyst for the mind. Catalyst being processed by the spirit is catalyst for the spirit."
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-19-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - 3DMonkey - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 06:10 PM)TheEternal Wrote: I don't think I said anything otherwise? I never said desires need to be stopped, just that thought patterns are indicative of the state of the desires and thus the leanings of polarization. Do you not think desires reflect polarization?
I guess when I think of polarization, I think of the attracting energies of the heart center, so one's desires are a reflection of their state of polarization.
Mind you, I don't think any person can externally tell this of another.
Well, I thought you were saying that exploring negative thoughts was an end in itself and not to be done.
So, I thought it beneficial to describe how exploring these thoughts brings one through processes that shape the mind into something different, possibly "improved", but "improved" is entirely subjective so forget I said that.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-19-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - 3DMonkey - 04-19-2012
(04-19-2012, 06:15 PM)TheEternal Wrote: This is well, as we are body/mind/spirit complexes. Are you proposing that there are times when the catalyst are somehow not occuring simultaneously and in conjunction?
Catalysts are connected, but a catalyst for the mind ceases being a catalyst for the mind when it becomes a thought form "body". At that point, there is an entirely new catalyst which is not the mind's. Any subsequent thoughts form new mind catalysts. Intertwined but never the conjoined.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Unbound - 04-19-2012
We seek within.
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Turtle - 04-20-2012
(04-19-2012, 04:49 PM)Ruth Wrote: Turtle - not to worry. I meant it, seriously, yesterday when I told you that you posted it just for me. It had a special message for me from Creator.
Love and light!
You are most welcome..
RE: The proper role of the individual self in relation to the outside world. - Zachary - 05-01-2012
If I could gain one thing from the Law of One.......
this is gold, thank you thank you...makes too much sense..