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+--- Thread: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? (/showthread.php?tid=3402)
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - zenmaster - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 07:15 AM)unity100 Wrote:Part of the free-will opportunities for learning here. The middle-eastern valuing system is largely within the 3rd subdensity. This is still automatic incarnations, and survival focus. Most adolescents of societies with leisure time go through 3rd subdensity in a few years while rebelling against parents, discovering self. Gang leaders, and a lot of rap culture, are drawing from the same valuing meme. As we move through each subdensity, learning its lessons, we have the potential for experiencing and expressing both healthy and pathological conditions subject to our bias.(10-18-2011, 09:06 PM)zenmaster Wrote:moreover, it is appalling how people rationalize, justify and even exonerate some information that is declared to be out of negative sources, just because they see some juicy stuff in it they like to believe in.(10-18-2011, 07:30 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: The whole point of his message seems to be a means of offering us a way to see how the STS path serves the One Creator.Yes, but do the means justify the ends?
this explains how the religions of middle east had gained following despite being from negative orion influence.
"The population of your planet contains many various groups harvested from other second-dimension and cycled third-dimension spheres. You are not all one race or background of beginning. The experience you share is unique to this time/space continuum."
"91.13 Questioner: To get back to what we were talking about, would the different races of this planet be from different planets in our local vicinity or the planets of nearby Logoi which have evolved through their second-density experiences, and would they create the large number of different races that we experience on this planet?
Ra: I am Ra. There are correctnesses to your supposition. However, not all races and sub-races are of various planetary origins. We suggest that in looking at planetary origins one observes not the pigmentation of the integument but the biases concerning interactions with other-selves and definitions regarding the nature of the self."
"11.18 Questioner: Then we have crusaders from Orion coming to this planet for mind control purposes. How do they do this?
Ra: I am Ra. As all, they follow the Law of One observing free will. Contact is made with those who call. Those then upon the planetary sphere act much as do you to disseminate the attitudes and philosophy of their particular understanding of the Law of One which is service to self. These become the elite. Through these, the attempt begins to create a condition whereby the remainder of the planetary entities are enslaved by their free will."
Here, one has the opportunity to agree with "thou shalt not kill", for example, on many different personal levels. When one exhalts an idea, it's one that has formed subjectively with many complexities and various contributing biases - quite possibily either STO or STS in orientation. Since most are not telepathic, they can not communicate the neumonal foundations of each concept and the understandings or misunderstandings which support it and for what purposes it is being used in the believing individual's development.
Same thing with any concept, from any source. People will identify with what they can from the perspective of their current bias, distortions, and balance. They will contribute to the social understanding of concepts through their own conceptualizations. Some particularly compelling ideas are seemingly disproportionately magnified or seemingly unnecessarily exhalted in order to bring them to the attention of the self for learning. (Oh gee, the crystal skulls are coming - I so resonate with the symbology! Wisdom, elders, crystals, journey, transformation, teaching - yep all the unconscious elements are there, it must be important.)
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - unity100 - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 09:24 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Part of the free-will opportunities for learning here. The middle-eastern valuing system is largely within the 3rd subdensity.
not exactly.
even as of 1981, the world consciousness was still orange.
yellow is the density of many, organization, ideas, abstract thoughts, ideals. the society forms its characteristic.
it is still not too different even today. if you look at not only the organized religions of middle east, but also the modern capitalist system of the west, you will see that all of them still imitate herd behavior - dominance of one perceived strong member over the herd.
religions do this through prophetization of an individual, capitalist system does this through ownership, in the end it all boils down to herd behavior - one strong male rules over all the herd with some lesser males as its henchmen.
not so different from feudal system.
in 2d there is little free will. leave aside herd behavior making it unlikely that the lower recesses of the herd will have any choice, but also perception of the 'many' and the resulting concept of choice (among many choices) is a trait of the 3rd density which brings abstract thought.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - JustLikeYou - 10-19-2011
zenmaster Wrote:Yes, but do the means justify the ends?I'm not sure what you mean by this since the phrase typically runs the other way.
Nevertheless, I find him very self-consistent, which is my most important truth-filter.
unity100 Wrote:moreover, it is appalling how people rationalize, justify and even exonerate some information that is declared to be out of negative sources, just because they see some juicy stuff in it they like to believe in.
this explains how the religions of middle east had gained following despite being from negative orion influence.
You seem to operate under the assumption, unity, that the negative polarity is a mistake of some kind. There are no mistakes. The negative polarity is a useful means of bringing experience to the Creator. Being of positive polarity does not entail somehow denigrating or being disgusted with those of the negative. Nor does being of the negative polarity entail being disgusted with those of the positive. This is like you and a friend playing WoW: you are Alliance and he is Horde. You aren't going to tell each other everything because you are at odds with each other in the game, but that doesn't mean you don't have good will toward each other.
It is important to keep in mind that negatives have extremely well-balanced red, orange, and yellow rays. In other words, they do not have bad habits because they can't harvest if they do. They are cold and calculating, but have no desire for malice because malice is of imbalance.
All this said, there is no need to justify curiosity and interest in a negative entity, because you can judge the truth for yourself: measure the self-consistence and simplicity of the message with your mind and weigh the thrust of the message against your heart. These have been unwavering guidelines for me.
unity100 Wrote:even as of 1981, the world consciousness was still orange.
Can you show me where Ra says this?
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - unity100 - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 04:25 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: You seem to operate under the assumption, unity, that the negative polarity is a mistake of some kind.
negative polarity, and positive polarity, are both 'mistakes' which wont be there in the next octave.
just like how there is no universal polarization like 'mover/moved' now, and all entities contain both moved and mover polarities to varying degrees.
they are just experiments to learn the extent of things. which brings us to the below :
Quote:There are no mistakes.
there are mistakes where you learn things. if there was no mistakes, there would be nothing to learn. mistakes are situations which happen when you do things not in the way you are supposed to learn and do. and through those, you learn.
that means, creator makes mistakes.
however this is an even longer talk, which we have done before. you can search older topics for greatly in-depth discussions about this, and many many moooreee ...
Quote:It is important to keep in mind that negatives have extremely well-balanced red, orange, and yellow rays. In other words, they do not have bad habits because they can't harvest if they do. They are cold and calculating, but have no desire for malice because malice is of imbalance.
your assumptions are incorrect, and seem to be gathered from perceptions in popular culture : just checking out a negativel harvested entity, rasputin's live, will tell you a lot about 'cold and calculating', 'not have bad habits'. a look at genghis khan's life, another negatively harvested entity, will tell you all about 'no desire for malice'.
Quote:unity100 Wrote:even as of 1981, the world consciousness was still orange.
Can you show me where Ra says this?
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=40&sc=1&ss=1#11
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - zenmaster - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 01:38 PM)unity100 Wrote:(10-19-2011, 09:24 AM)zenmaster Wrote: Part of the free-will opportunities for learning here. The middle-eastern valuing system is largely within the 3rd subdensity.
not exactly.
even as of 1981, the world consciousness was still orange.
yellow is the density of many, organization, ideas, abstract thoughts, ideals. the society forms its characteristic.
it is still not too different even today. if you look at not only the organized religions of middle east, but also the modern capitalist system of the west, you will see that all of them still imitate herd behavior - dominance of one perceived strong member over the herd.
religions do this through prophetization of an individual, capitalist system does this through ownership, in the end it all boils down to herd behavior - one strong male rules over all the herd with some lesser males as its henchmen.
not so different from feudal system.
in 2d there is little free will. leave aside herd behavior making it unlikely that the lower recesses of the herd will have any choice, but also perception of the 'many' and the resulting concept of choice (among many choices) is a trait of the 3rd density which brings abstract thought.
90% of the subdensities deal with various distortions of 'herd mentality' (which is also egocentric), as the whole point is to learn about self awareness. It's only in the last subdensity that one sufficiently individuates to not be unconsciously influenced by the herd for lessons of self awareness.
Free will is always there, we have plenty of opportunity. As many are not polarized (still orange), the so-called 'negativity' is really just pathological distortions of the particular subdensity. It should be realized that social structures, such as feudal systems are not pathological. They provide a learning opportunity for a particular set of distortions at the core-valuing for a subdensity. In that case, the 3rd subdensity. Choice is something people provide for themselves as they discover their ability to choose. Here we have plenty of social structures, at each subdensity, to choose from.
(10-19-2011, 04:25 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:zenmaster Wrote:Yes, but do the means justify the ends?I'm not sure what you mean by this since the phrase typically runs the other way.
Nevertheless, I find him very self-consistent, which is my most important truth-filter.
If someone wanted to teach others about something, it would be unethical to manufacture a story unless that purpose was disclosed. I could care less how self-consistent it was. We are plagued with stories of this type due to unethical attitudes of the utilitarian mindset.
We can make up anything we desire, and always have someone resonate with it as 'truth', while what they are resonating with is a shadow or a manipulation.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - 3DMonkey - 10-19-2011
So goes the entire 3D "Creation", zenmaster. You and I included.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - zenmaster - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 09:39 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: So goes the entire 3D "Creation", zenmaster. You and I included.How's that?
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - 3DMonkey - 10-19-2011
Creating stories of truth. That's what we all do. That's our co-creation.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - zenmaster - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 09:53 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Creating stories of truth. That's what we all do. That's our co-creation.Yes we create stories of truth, but that is completely beside the point I was making.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - JustLikeYou - 10-19-2011
unity100 Wrote:there are mistakes where you learn things.
Then our disagreement is in vocabulary alone.
unity100 Wrote:your assumptions are incorrect, and seem to be gathered from perceptions in popular culture : just checking out a negativel harvested entity, rasputin's live, will tell you a lot about 'cold and calculating', 'not have bad habits'. a look at genghis khan's life, another negatively harvested entity, will tell you all about 'no desire for malice'.
These are not assumptions in the sense you suggest. I am describing the negative polarity the best I understand it. A description of the life of either of these figures will bring you no information about what was actually going on in the minds of such figures who were unlikely to have been understood in their times. I'm not saying they didn't have their own imbalances, but I do know that imbalances in the lower chakras are specifically what cause malicious behavior and "bad habits" (by which I mean uncontrollable ego compulsions). Because so much balance of lower chakras is necessary, attributing harvestable STS entities imbalances of the lower chakras is absurd. These beings have contacted intelligent infinity and they are enlightened. Their path is different which means that their emotional experience is different, but they have to sort out lower chakra imbalances just like you do. I have no idea what it would be like to feel pleasure in a human sacrifice, but I'm sure an STS entity would and I'm sure that to describe this feeling as "malice" is to severely underestimate your fellow human being.
zenmaster Wrote:If someone wanted to teach others about something, it would be unethical to manufacture a story unless that purpose was disclosed. I could care less how self-consistent it was. We are plagued with stories of this type due to unethical attitudes of the utilitarian mindset.
We can make up anything we desire, and always have someone resonate with it as 'truth', while what they are resonating with is a shadow or a manipulation.
Are you suggesting that a novelist must explain the hows, whys and wherefores in order to ethically write a novel? Or that the novelist cannot write the novel without disclosing whether it is fact or fiction? This is a very small ethical box.
If it resonates, zenmaster, it is truth. The source is of no consequence. A zen master should know that.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - 3DMonkey - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)zenmaster Wrote:(10-19-2011, 09:53 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Creating stories of truth. That's what we all do. That's our co-creation.Yes we create stories of truth, but that is completely beside the point I was making.
You were making your own story. I know.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - zenmaster - 10-19-2011
It's not about stories in particular, but about shadows and light. We can always say someone's opinion is a story. We know this.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - 3DMonkey - 10-19-2011
It is a thought...
You are part of a thought.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - zenmaster - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 10:04 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: It is a thought...Yes, apparently your thought.
You are part of a thought.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - apeiron - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:unity100 Wrote:there are mistakes where you learn things.
Then our disagreement is in vocabulary alone.
unity100 Wrote:your assumptions are incorrect, and seem to be gathered from perceptions in popular culture : just checking out a negativel harvested entity, rasputin's live, will tell you a lot about 'cold and calculating', 'not have bad habits'. a look at genghis khan's life, another negatively harvested entity, will tell you all about 'no desire for malice'.
These are not assumptions in the sense you suggest. I am describing the negative polarity the best I understand it. A description of the life of either of these figures will bring you no information about what was actually going on in the minds of such figures who were unlikely to have been understood in their times. I'm not saying they didn't have their own imbalances, but I do know that imbalances in the lower chakras are specifically what cause malicious behavior and "bad habits" (by which I mean uncontrollable ego compulsions). Because so much balance of lower chakras is necessary, attributing harvestable STS entities imbalances of the lower chakras is absurd. These beings have contacted intelligent infinity and they are enlightened. Their path is different which means that their emotional experience is different, but they have to sort out lower chakra imbalances just like you do. I have no idea what it would be like to feel pleasure in a human sacrifice, but I'm sure an STS entity would and I'm sure that to describe this feeling as "malice" is to severely underestimate your fellow human being.
zenmaster Wrote:If someone wanted to teach others about something, it would be unethical to manufacture a story unless that purpose was disclosed. I could care less how self-consistent it was. We are plagued with stories of this type due to unethical attitudes of the utilitarian mindset.
We can make up anything we desire, and always have someone resonate with it as 'truth', while what they are resonating with is a shadow or a manipulation.
Are you suggesting that a novelist must explain the hows, whys and wherefores in order to ethically write a novel? Or that the novelist cannot write the novel without disclosing whether it is fact or fiction? This is a very small ethical box.
If it resonates, zenmaster, it is truth. The source is of no consequence. A zen master should know that.
The positive entity can also make good use of the lower chakras balance. So it is not only the balance. I think it is the effective use of the 3 lower chakras that allows the negative entity (by intensity/balance/effective use) to bypass the green chakra and directly use the indigo. The blue is also bypassed although a 5th negative entity could effectively use that energy center inwardly. This 5th negative entity is a lonely entity so transmission of blue can occur and also it is blue ray density.
It does not seem to me that a 4th negative entity can make use of blue effectively. Also there is the possibility that the interplay of the 3 lower centers with the indigo is enough to energize 4th and 5th negative densities until mid 6d. Maybe that is why different time-spaces exist as negative and positive?
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - AnthroHeart - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 09:56 PM)3DMonkey Wrote:The theme of my life seems to be getting lost in, and losing control of the energy and the story. If you don't let the story go sometimes, it gets too big for the 3D mind to follow. Sometimes, I'm finding I must destroy my own stories. You ever get into the story that puts the responsibility of a creator on your shoulders? It can sometimes be too much for me. But it's so good to come down again after letting it go.(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)zenmaster Wrote:You were making your own story. I know.(10-19-2011, 09:53 PM)3DMonkey Wrote: Creating stories of truth. That's what we all do. That's our co-creation.Yes we create stories of truth, but that is completely beside the point I was making.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - zenmaster - 10-19-2011
(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: Are you suggesting that a novelist must explain the hows, whys and wherefores in order to ethically write a novel?No.
(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: Or that the novelist cannot write the novel without disclosing whether it is fact or fiction? This is a very small ethical box.It would be, if that's what I was suggesting.
(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: If it resonates, zenmaster, it is truth.Sure. Everything is truth, therefore even if you don't resonate with it, it doesn't matter. But that's not the point.
(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: I The source is of no consequence. A zen master should know that.A zen master would probably know that, and most people too. But that's not what I was talking about.
What I was referring to was the unethical depiction of truth.
(10-19-2011, 10:31 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: You ever get into the story that puts the responsibility of a creator on your shoulders? It can sometimes be too much for me.Well, since a creator's responsibility is a conscious choice, I'm not sure what you refer to as being 'too much'. It's probably not responsibility, but an imbalance with respect to the story.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - Oceania - 10-20-2011
don't you guys want a better reality?
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - Bring4th_Steve - 10-20-2011
(10-18-2011, 09:06 PM)zenmaster Wrote:If an awakening person comes across the HH material and is catalyzed and fueled by it to seek further (whether seeking in STS or STO), how is that not perfection?(10-18-2011, 07:30 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: The whole point of his message seems to be a means of offering us a way to see how the STS path serves the One Creator.Yes, but do the means justify the ends?
In my opinion, many of us seem to be shooting the messenger here. There will always be love-based and fear-based catalyst in 3D. It is the uniqueness and perhaps even the contradictory aspects of the HH message that might be the perfect combination of "WTF!?" and "Hmm, this curious fellow has some valid points!" that might awaken a handful of people in ways they would not have awakened had they never come across the material in the precise way they did.
Sure, many of us do not enjoy it. It's oddly STO for an STS-proclaimed chap. So? Who cares! It's still someone's Truth, no matter how distorted it has become in principle. Who are you [figuratively] to judge what another's Truth is? At the end of the day, would it even matter if this was someone's hair-brained idea conjured up while sitting on the toilet? What matters is how much the message--however portrayed--resonated with someone who needed to read such a message in that exact configuration, at that exact moment, for their own spiritual growth or further knowing of their Self. Therefore, it doesn't matter how much "truth" truly exists in the HH message. The point is that it catalyzed someone further for their own introspection and continued spiritual growth/regression.
Steve
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - Bring4th_Steve - 10-20-2011
(10-20-2011, 11:24 AM)Oceania Wrote: don't you guys want a better reality?Those who want a better reality would simply use discernment on the HH message and reject the message, thus continuing forward and attracting a timeline/reality that becomes a better reality--for them.
The HH message could certainly exist for those who want that kind of reality, as they will resonate with the message, incorporate it into their personal belief system, and make life decisions that would ultimately manifest something closer to the reality that HH proposes.
We are in no position to judge what someone calls a "better reality", as the perception of reality is unique to everyone.
Steve
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - unity100 - 10-20-2011
(10-19-2011, 08:16 PM)zenmaster Wrote: 90% of the subdensities deal with various distortions of 'herd mentality' (which is also egocentric), as the whole point is to learn about self awareness. It's only in the last subdensity that one sufficiently individuates to not be unconsciously influenced by the herd for lessons of self awareness.
thats incorrect. what you speak of, differentiating and not getting affected by the herd unconsciously, should happen at end of 2nd density, so that the entity could graduate to 3d.
you are taking the orange natured society of today as a norm for your analysis. its not a good basis to analyze from. technically, the entity should have realized to detach from the whims of its society at 3rd subdensity of 3rd density, which is yellow-yellow.
(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote:unity100 Wrote:your assumptions are incorrect, and seem to be gathered from perceptions in popular culture : just checking out a negativel harvested entity, rasputin's live, will tell you a lot about 'cold and calculating', 'not have bad habits'. a look at genghis khan's life, another negatively harvested entity, will tell you all about 'no desire for malice'.
These are not assumptions in the sense you suggest. I am describing the negative polarity the best I understand it. A description of the life of either of these figures will bring you no information about what was actually going on in the minds of such figures who were unlikely to have been understood in their times.
there is nothing not to understand about rasputin's love excesses and insatiable sexual apetite, nothing not to understand about genghis khan systematically mowing down people. they just did these.
Quote:I'm not saying they didn't have their own imbalances, but I do know that imbalances in the lower chakras are specifically what cause malicious behavior and "bad habits" (by which I mean uncontrollable ego compulsions). Because so much balance of lower chakras is necessary, attributing harvestable STS entities imbalances of the lower chakras is absurd.
you need to read the material a bit more. the entire sts path is comprised of imbalance of lower chakras with extreme activity in any way possible. overemphasis and enforcement of one's own red, orange and yellow is negative path.
it is imbalance.
'balance of lower chakras being necessary' is something you have proposed yourself. there is no such 'fine balance' requirement for graduation from 3rd density. the entity can graduate as long as it can function as a sentient, self-conscious and aware entity and it fills emission or absorption requirements. and this is what actually enables presence of negative path.
Quote:These beings have contacted intelligent infinity and they are enlightened.
enlightened entity would be an entity which actually consciously realized that all existing entities are one and unified. which makes harming another entity impossible, due to properties of open 6th ray carrying over the pain of another entity directly to your own consciousness.
Quote: but I'm sure an STS entity would and I'm sure that to describe this feeling as "malice" is to severely underestimate your fellow human being.
oook. now, malice is no longer 'malice' at all, but something which is more divine and honorable.
no. malice is malice. and it seems you are moving out of the nonsense that is produced by hidden hand persona you have mentioned.
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=19&sc=1&ss=1#16
Quote:19.16 Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates the momentum towards the chosen path of service to self?
Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.
All these experiences are available. It is the free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.
malice is malice. in the material we are studying here. it is not replaced with something more 'divinely honorable' or different than what it is. it is malice.
(10-19-2011, 09:54 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: Are you suggesting that a novelist must explain the hows, whys and wherefores in order to ethically write a novel? Or that the novelist cannot write the novel without disclosing whether it is fact or fiction? This is a very small ethical box.
yes. otherwise in-congruent nonsense is manufactured, and it comes to such an extent that some people go as far to say 'malice' is not 'malice' at all.
have you actually read Ra material at all, by the way ?
Quote:If it resonates, zenmaster, it is truth. The source is of no consequence. A zen master should know that.
sure. then tell us how would resonating with the 'truth' that 'there is no gravity' would change things for someone.
...................
there is no such thing as 'resonating' with 'truth'. things are being taken way out of context in spiritual literature.
the 'resonation' concept was given for spiritual information that was being channeled. preference of approaching interactions, others, interpreting events, seeing them in positive or negative light, and reacting to them.
resonation concept was never proposed as something that had the power to override the reality you are in, if you just wanted to believe in something out of a desire for things to be like that.
nomatter how much you resonate with anything, this planet will still keep turning. nomatter how much you resonate with what someone else says, there will still be many entities in 3rd density. nomatter how you resonate, 51% positive emissions necessity will still be a requirement for graduation from 3rd density in this universe.
nomatter how much you resonate with whatever you can imagine or hear, the basic mechanisms and rules that were created to make this reality possible will keep acting as they were created to be.
if, you could 'resonate' and change these things, there would be no reality to speak of. everything would just be like a fleeting, incomprehensible, chaotic dream after a lsd session or similar. you couldnt at all, even subconsciously, understand what really happened, what you really felt, what feeling was what, what you really wanted, and what just happened in the meantime you were feeling, or whether you were feeling at all. chaos.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - godwide_void - 10-20-2011
I'm sure many of you recall the words of Ra when he states that "All entities serve the Creator. It is impossible NOT to serve the Creator." I do not see why negative speculation and dismissal is made in regards to Hidden_Hand. Irregardless of the fact that he may indeed be a high ranking member of certain power lines, his service lies in that he has made catalyst available to others, both through his correspondence with the ATS community (which no doubt introduced those who fancy themselves truth-seekers to the grand truth, the Law of One) and in the role he has chosen to play here. The mass negativity incurred by him, or metaphysically speaking his Social Memory Complex Lucifer, has without a doubt offered tremendous opportunities for growth in this illusion, and it must be noted that this was apparently sanctioned by our Logos. From a limited 3D density one would indeed find many grievances against their deeds, yet you must look further and ponder the implications that this entity is serving the One Infinite Creator. His mental state or possible ulterior motives are inconsequential. One may refer to him as a heyoka... One would not expect the message he shared to have come from the source it did, a supposedly "evil" being, and yet it did. Merely another conveyance of the infinity of variances one will encounter in the vast Creation.
Remember, the Law of One blinks at neither the light nor the dark. The issue of light vs. dark is also a non-issue here. It is very clear that HH has a keen comprehension of the Law of One, and this understanding radiates from his words. Granted, he is nowhere near being the ultimate authority on it, but seeing as he spreads a message of harmony and advice to achieve this, while acknowledging the role he must play to keep the game going (which, he admits, is very hard to do on his spiritual level) is testament enough.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - native - 10-20-2011
Quote:What matters is how much the message--however portrayed--resonated with someone who needed to read such a message in that exact configuration, at that exact moment, for their own spiritual growth or further knowing of their Self. Therefore, it doesn't matter how much "truth" truly exists in the HH message. The point is that it catalyzed someone further for their own introspection and continued spiritual growth/regression.
I disagree. As truth seekers who value honesty, we shouldn't be supportive of misleading and dishonest approaches to the truth. In reality there are many who are imbalanced, and now as a consequence, believe this fantasy side story and it only leads them further from the truth, distorting their seeking. It is what it is, and it will be catalyst for them (hopefully). Yes, I'm fine with that, but is it necessary and does this mean it is "ok"? Hardly not. If you want to speak truths you shouldn't be doing it in a dishonest fashion.
There seem to be two arguments here: Is it ok after the fact? I suppose. But was it ok in the first place? Surely it can't be.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - unity100 - 10-20-2011
(10-20-2011, 12:34 PM)godwide_void Wrote: I'm sure many of you recall the words of Ra when he states that "All entities serve the Creator. It is impossible NOT to serve the Creator." I do not see why negative speculation and dismissal is made in regards to Hidden_Hand.
sure. why not incorporate, discuss and accept nazi party propaganda as 'our truth' here too ? they also serve the creator, and neo nazi are still around.
or, why not just incorporate aztec religion and their rituals and start sacrificing people ?
...............
dismissal is made in regard to hidden hand, because it is first an unreliable 'source'. even dubbing it as a source is rather far fetched, he is probably just a person.
dismissal in regard to seeking of truth comes from the need to separate nonsense that was manufactured for attention from usable truth.
and in that, the persona you named hidden hand fails the first check, since it declares itself to be a 'sts entity'. service to self entails everything that is to the benefit of self, including lying and manufacturing things, regardless of its consequences to others. therefore, its rightaway unreliable from the start due to that declaration.
even if he didnt, innumerable pointers to inconsistencies within what he conveys could be made.
im not even talking about inconsistencies of the information he gives, with the Ra material in question here.
Quote:Irregardless of the fact that he may indeed be a high ranking member of certain power lines
yeeees. sure.
someone claims authority and power in a hierarchy. you believe it, you infer power to it. even if it is a lie.
Quote:his service lies in that he has made catalyst available to others, both through his correspondence with the ATS community (which no doubt introduced those who fancy themselves truth-seekers to the grand truth, the Law of One)
and in the role he has chosen to play here. The mass negativity incurred by him, or metaphysically speaking his Social Memory Complex Lucifer, has without a doubt offered tremendous opportunities for growth in this illusion, and it must be noted that this was apparently sanctioned by our Logos. From a limited 3D density one would indeed find many grievances against their deeds, yet you must look further and ponder the implications that this entity is serving the One Infinite Creator. His mental state or possible ulterior motives are inconsequential. One may refer to him as a heyoka... One would not expect the message he shared to have come from the source it did, a supposedly "evil" being, and yet it did. Merely another conveyance of the infinity of variances one will encounter in the vast Creation.
Remember, the Law of One blinks at neither the light nor the dark. The issue of light vs. dark is also a non-issue here. It is very clear that HH has a keen comprehension of the Law of One, and this understanding radiates from his words. Granted, he is nowhere near being the ultimate authority on it, but seeing as he spreads a message of harmony and advice to achieve this, while acknowledging the role he must play to keep the game going (which, he admits, is very hard to do on his spiritual level) is testament enough.
Law of One blinks at neither light or dark, and this does not prevent people like you from being led astray by people of self-serving orientation, through lies and manufactured 'truth'.
this is the service negative provides to positive. the service of knowing what not to do on the positive path. nothing else.
'council of nine gave us the MISSION to be NEGATIVE' is no different than saying 'god chosen me as its messenger, you need to hear me and obey what i say' that recurs in various negative religions that came out of middle east due to orion influence.
surely, it may be a negative effort. it is definite even. even if it is manufactured.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - Bring4th_Steve - 10-20-2011
Unity, I appreciate your extreme examples with the Aztecs and the Nazis. If this were a forum focused on discussing such topics that were driven by the beliefs of those groups, then sure. We could dissect them here and that would be fine and appropriate.
However, we are discussing practices framed in the greater picture of Creation. So we would not talk about the experiences of the Aztecs and the Nazis here because this forum is not focused on that particular expression of humanity. However, it is a judgment for you to say that the Aztecs and Nazis were "wrong" in any way. They were simply living their beliefs at the time. We as a society would not be where we are right now if we didn't have these combined parts of history. So it seems you are telling us that you feel it is appropriate to judge other cultures since you are now living at a time when our society holds a different set of moral beliefs?
Steve
(10-20-2011, 12:49 PM)unity100 Wrote:(10-20-2011, 12:34 PM)godwide_void Wrote: I'm sure many of you recall the words of Ra when he states that "All entities serve the Creator. It is impossible NOT to serve the Creator." I do not see why negative speculation and dismissal is made in regards to Hidden_Hand.
sure. why not incorporate, discuss and accept nazi party propaganda as 'our truth' here too ? they also serve the creator, and neo nazi are still around.
or, why not just incorporate aztec religion and their rituals and start sacrificing people ?
...............
dismissal is made in regard to hidden hand, because it is first an unreliable 'source'. even dubbing it as a source is rather far fetched, he is probably just a person.
dismissal in regard to seeking of truth comes from the need to separate nonsense that was manufactured for attention from usable truth.
and in that, the persona you named hidden hand fails the first check, since it declares itself to be a 'sts entity'. service to self entails everything that is to the benefit of self, including lying and manufacturing things, regardless of its consequences to others. therefore, its rightaway unreliable from the start due to that declaration.
even if he didnt, innumerable pointers to inconsistencies within what he conveys could be made.
im not even talking about inconsistencies of the information he gives, with the Ra material in question here.
Quote:Irregardless of the fact that he may indeed be a high ranking member of certain power lines
yeeees. sure.
someone claims authority and power in a hierarchy. you believe it, you infer power to it. even if it is a lie.
Quote:his service lies in that he has made catalyst available to others, both through his correspondence with the ATS community (which no doubt introduced those who fancy themselves truth-seekers to the grand truth, the Law of One)
and in the role he has chosen to play here. The mass negativity incurred by him, or metaphysically speaking his Social Memory Complex Lucifer, has without a doubt offered tremendous opportunities for growth in this illusion, and it must be noted that this was apparently sanctioned by our Logos. From a limited 3D density one would indeed find many grievances against their deeds, yet you must look further and ponder the implications that this entity is serving the One Infinite Creator. His mental state or possible ulterior motives are inconsequential. One may refer to him as a heyoka... One would not expect the message he shared to have come from the source it did, a supposedly "evil" being, and yet it did. Merely another conveyance of the infinity of variances one will encounter in the vast Creation.
Remember, the Law of One blinks at neither the light nor the dark. The issue of light vs. dark is also a non-issue here. It is very clear that HH has a keen comprehension of the Law of One, and this understanding radiates from his words. Granted, he is nowhere near being the ultimate authority on it, but seeing as he spreads a message of harmony and advice to achieve this, while acknowledging the role he must play to keep the game going (which, he admits, is very hard to do on his spiritual level) is testament enough.
Law of One blinks at neither light or dark, and this does not prevent people like you from being led astray by people of self-serving orientation, through lies and manufactured 'truth'.
this is the service negative provides to positive. the service of knowing what not to do on the positive path. nothing else.
'council of nine gave us the MISSION to be NEGATIVE' is no different than saying 'god chosen me as its messenger, you need to hear me and obey what i say' that recurs in various negative religions that came out of middle east due to orion influence.
surely, it may be a negative effort. it is definite even. even if it is manufactured.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - Bring4th_Steve - 10-20-2011
(10-20-2011, 12:41 PM)Icaro Wrote:Icaro, I respect your outlook on this, but you seem to be complicating this by making more judgments against others.Quote:What matters is how much the message--however portrayed--resonated with someone who needed to read such a message in that exact configuration, at that exact moment, for their own spiritual growth or further knowing of their Self. Therefore, it doesn't matter how much "truth" truly exists in the HH message. The point is that it catalyzed someone further for their own introspection and continued spiritual growth/regression.
I disagree. As truth seekers who value honesty, we shouldn't be supportive of misleading and dishonest approaches to the truth. In reality there are many who are imbalanced, and now as a consequence, believe this fantasy side story and it only leads them further from the truth, distorting their seeking. It is what it is, and it will be catalyst for them (hopefully). Yes, I'm fine with that, but is it necessary and does this mean it is "ok"? Hardly not. If you want to speak truths you shouldn't be doing it in a dishonest fashion.
There seem to be two arguments here: Is it ok after the fact? I suppose. But was it ok in the first place? Surely it can't be.
Quote: we shouldn't be supportive of misleading and dishonest approaches to the truth.So are you the decider of all things "Truth"? And is not everything in Creation born of the light, which is 100% Love/Truth? It is only when Truth is portrayed in ways that serve others or spreads disinformation that we consider a Truth to be a lie. But a lie is still Truth, just heavily distorted.
Now, you are holding a distorted Truth in your hands. You are now going to expect everyone around you to see this distorted Truth and "know" that it is false? How can you expect everyone to believe the same things you believe, Icaro?
Therefore, it is safe to say that one person's Truth is another person's lie. And in our case here with HH, vice versa!
So the idea of "saving" someone by trying to tell them that there is a Higher Truth might not be appropriate for someone who is not ready for that truth.
They may need the disinformation of HH in order to build and arrive at new Truths, which happen to be closer to what you personally believe in.
The same applies for Unity's post, which just came in. He said to Godwide_void, (paraphrased), "Then why stop here? Why don't we also validate the barbaric actions of the aztecs and nazis while we're accepting HH's message?"
Yet wouldn't it be wise to accept that it took these "barbaric truths of the time" in order for us to arrive at the Higher Truths we live today? So if that has happened on a grand scale, why judge someone for needing that kind of catalyst on a personal scale, in order to arrive to more pure Truths?
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - unity100 - 10-20-2011
(10-20-2011, 01:03 PM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: Unity, I appreciate your extreme examples with the Aztecs and the Nazis. If this were a forum focused on discussing such topics that were driven by the beliefs of those groups, then sure. We could dissect them here and that would be fine and appropriate.
However, we are discussing practices framed in the greater picture of Creation. So we would not talk about the experiences of the Aztecs and the Nazis here because this forum is not focused on that particular expression of humanity.
then why would hidden hand be any different ?
Quote: However, it is a judgment for you to say that the Aztecs and Nazis were "wrong" in any way. They were simply living their beliefs at the time. We as a society would not be where we are right now if we didn't have these combined parts of history. So it seems you are telling us that you feel it is appropriate to judge other cultures since you are now living at a time when our society holds a different set of moral beliefs?
yes. it is a judgment. and everyone is supposed to use their judgment to discern what is right with their path, and what is wrong.
if we are on the positive path, enslaving and butchering people, is wrong. there is no other way of putting that. you need to accept it as a part of the greater whole, but take it out of your own manifesting self.
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=41&sc=1&ss=1#20
Quote:41.20 Questioner: You mentioned in the last session the concept of fasting for removing unwanted thought-forms. Can you expand on this process and explain a little bit more about how this works?
Ra: I am Ra. This, as all healing techniques, must be used by a conscious being; that is, a being conscious that the ridding of excess and unwanted material from the body complex is the analogy to the ridding of mind or spirit of excess or unwanted material. Thus the one discipline or denial of the unwanted portion as an appropriate part of the self is taken through the tree of mind down through the trunk to subconscious levels where the connection is made and thus the body, mind, and spirit, then in unison, express denial of the excess or unwanted spiritual or mental material as part of the entity.
All then falls away and the entity, while understanding, if you will, and appreciating the nature of the rejected material as part of the greater self, nevertheless, through the action of the will purifies and refines the mind/body/spirit complex, bringing into manifestation the desired mind complex or spirit complex attitude.
you cannot just keep accepting butchering people as 'truth' of your own self and keep it inside you or in your society.
entities are supposed to use their judgments in order to discern what is compatible with their path, and what is not. it seems, some people are interpreting positive path as embracing everything, including negative behavior patterns. that is not correct. accepting a negative behavior pattern and keeping it in your manifesting self, would cause you to lessen in positive polarity.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - Bring4th_Steve - 10-20-2011
Quote: then why would hidden hand be any different ?Simply because the subject matter of Hidden Hand is far more aligned with this forum (in terms of spiritual context) than discussing the barbaric belief systems of other cultures that humanity now considers outdated. I would guess it is only because you do not agree with the HH message that you feel none of it should exist here. I happen to strongly dislike the HH message, too. I think it's recycled and obfuscated, but I still strongly believe it is a valid Truth to the many who have had different life experiences than me, or those who are on a spiritual path that resonates at the exact level of "Truth" shared in the words of the HH message.
Unity, not sure why you just went into that whole justification about the wrongs of accepting denser actions. No one is arguing that the barbaric ways of the past should be accepted as one's Truth. We are all lightworkers, and I think it's safe to say that many of us here are beyond the need to manifest or incorporate such vibrations into our being.
The point I feel you are missing is that these Truths may be what OTHERS still need at this time as they awaken to their true Self. You don't need to explain/justify this, as I believe we are already on the same page. :-) It is only because you brought up barbaric cultures as an extreme example to make a point, that we are even discussing them still. But we discussed them only to recognize them as a Truth of our past, which has since helped humanity evolve into the "now", where such dense manifestations are no longer necessary for most of us.
That does not mean we have the right to judge those cultures, though! The energies and experiences of those cultures may very well be needed to help a handful of the billions of people within our planet to experience the exact catalyst that leads them to their next series of Truths, hopefully that become less and less distorted as the seeker learns discernment and resonates more and more with the higher vibrations of Love.
Steve
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - godwide_void - 10-20-2011
(10-20-2011, 12:49 PM)unity100 Wrote:(10-20-2011, 12:34 PM)godwide_void Wrote: I'm sure many of you recall the words of Ra when he states that "All entities serve the Creator. It is impossible NOT to serve the Creator." I do not see why negative speculation and dismissal is made in regards to Hidden_Hand.
sure. why not incorporate, discuss and accept nazi party propaganda as 'our truth' here too ? they also serve the creator, and neo nazi are still around.
or, why not just incorporate aztec religion and their rituals and start sacrificing people ?
When did I deem what HH says as being "our truth"? Neo-Nazism is something I do not agree with, neither is human sacrifice, and such things exist as a result of the veil which upholds the illusion of separation, and the inability to perceive the divinity in others. Such things exist here also to show us what we are not, and what should not be done. Discord and mayhem exists. It is a part of the Creation. To imply that because I postulate that all things serve the Creator that I would champion Neo-Nazism and human sacrifice is foolish.
...............
Quote:dismissal is made in regard to hidden hand, because it is first an unreliable 'source'. even dubbing it as a source is rather far fetched, he is probably just a person.
dismissal in regard to seeking of truth comes from the need to separate nonsense that was manufactured for attention from usable truth.
and in that, the persona you named hidden hand fails the first check, since it declares itself to be a 'sts entity'. service to self entails everything that is to the benefit of self, including lying and manufacturing things, regardless of its consequences to others. therefore, its rightaway unreliable from the start due to that declaration. even if he didnt, innumerable pointers to inconsistencies within what he conveys could be made. im not even talking about inconsistencies of the information he gives, with the Ra material in question here.
Dubbing him as a source is not far-fetched. We are all information nodes, all sources of data through insight and experience. Sure, he is not a chanelled/higher source, but he is a messenger. I do not doubt that he artfully and skillfully is pushing forth manipulation (obviously, he is a STS entity with a deep understanding of the LOO, it is easy to tell how he weaves STO rhetoric to sugarcoat his STS goals. The bottom line is, through his internet ecapades tauting claims to gnosis and esoterica, anybody who happened upon the material more than likely got pointed in the RIGHT direction, towards the Ra material.
Quote:Quote:Irregardless of the fact that he may indeed be a high ranking member of certain power lines
yeeees. sure.
someone claims authority and power in a hierarchy. you believe it, you infer power to it. even if it is a lie.
I said he may. Neither of us can be certain he is in fact a member of "power lines beyond the Earth", but it's safe to say he plays this role well to those on ATS. Whether he is or a troll, his message remains the same.
Quote:Quote:his service lies in that he has made catalyst available to others, both through his correspondence with the ATS community (which no doubt introduced those who fancy themselves truth-seekers to the grand truth, the Law of One)
and in the role he has chosen to play here. The mass negativity incurred by him, or metaphysically speaking his Social Memory Complex Lucifer, has without a doubt offered tremendous opportunities for growth in this illusion, and it must be noted that this was apparently sanctioned by our Logos. From a limited 3D density one would indeed find many grievances against their deeds, yet you must look further and ponder the implications that this entity is serving the One Infinite Creator. His mental state or possible ulterior motives are inconsequential. One may refer to him as a heyoka... One would not expect the message he shared to have come from the source it did, a supposedly "evil" being, and yet it did. Merely another conveyance of the infinity of variances one will encounter in the vast Creation.
Remember, the Law of One blinks at neither the light nor the dark. The issue of light vs. dark is also a non-issue here. It is very clear that HH has a keen comprehension of the Law of One, and this understanding radiates from his words. Granted, he is nowhere near being the ultimate authority on it, but seeing as he spreads a message of harmony and advice to achieve this, while acknowledging the role he must play to keep the game going (which, he admits, is very hard to do on his spiritual level) is testament enough.
Law of One blinks at neither light or dark, and this does not prevent people like you from being led astray by people of self-serving orientation, through lies and manufactured 'truth'.
this is the service negative provides to positive. the service of knowing what not to do on the positive path. nothing else.
I find it very funny that you assume I am somehow being "led astray". It is the Law of One which guides me, and the Creator which is at the forefront of my thoughts, and the only path I walk is that which is encompassed by peace, to cultivate serenity and compassion towards others, ultimately leading to unconditional love. I am merely stating my speculations on this STS being and voicing my observations of it all. For you to think this conveys I am being led astray in some way is again, a foolish assumption. I agree however with the last sentence as that is clearly obvious, dark exists for us to be able to differentiate between it and light, so we may know what we are not.
Quote:'council of nine gave us the MISSION to be NEGATIVE' is no different than saying 'god chosen me as its messenger, you need to hear me and obey what i say' that recurs in various negative religions that came out of middle east due to orion influence.
surely, it may be a negative effort. it is definite even. even if it is manufactured.
His proclamation that the negativity they must incur is due to divine will is obviously a bit of a line-crosser, and again, we cannot be 100% certain that he is just a madman with esoteric knowledge or he is genuine in that they must do these acts, but it is certain that they are enacting catalyst for spiritual growth for others; the disharmony they create gives us better chances to bond together, their grisly rhetoric and plans allow us to want to greater seek tranquility and truth. It is apparent you misunderstood me, so I will reiterate that I do not idolize HH and I do not view him as a saintly patron of harmony. He is a negative entity, espousing negative motives under the guise of positivity. He is also another aspect of the Creator, just as you and I are, whether you like it or not.
I implore that you further meditate upon the central considerations of unity, my friend.
RE: Following the 4th Density Harvest, what will we perceive? - 3DMonkey - 10-20-2011
(10-20-2011, 01:19 PM)unity100 Wrote: entities are supposed to use their judgments in order to discern what is compatible with their path, and what is not. it seems, some people are interpreting positive path as embracing everything, including negative behavior patterns. that is not correct. accepting a negative behavior pattern and keeping it in your manifesting self, would cause you to lessen in positive polarity.
Actually, that is very correct. Embracing and accepting all as one is the goal of the "positive path". To fear losing polarity for self gain is the opposite of that. Yes, to protect self for fear of a separate other self is a negative behavior pattern, and is actually the fuel that this world's STS burn daily for sustenance.