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RE: The veil and the "hell" - kristina - 05-01-2019
(05-01-2019, 08:11 AM)Nau7ik Wrote:(04-30-2019, 01:50 PM)Patrick Wrote: We still experience separation without the veil. The veil just makes it unavoidable.
I disagreed at first but I think I understand now: being under the veil in 3D, the feeling of separation is unavoidable. Without the veil, separation, the path of that which is not, is chosen by free will as a guiding principle (polarity). The heart must be closed for the STS entity because the heart is painfully aware of separation.
Behind these illusions remains the Law of One, that is, Unity, Oneness.
I totally agree! Perhaps I am confusing something or missing a point. When I read the entire quote my response was that The Original Thought is unity and does not experience separation as we do or any entity chosing to experience separation.
However, it is true that the veil of forgetting provides intense learning and gives the entity the free will to choose a polarity without previous biases.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Cyan - 05-01-2019
I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be in the 4th D positive with the veil still in effect, probably very difficult.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - loostudent - 05-04-2019
(05-01-2019, 08:11 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: I disagreed at first but I think I understand now: being under the veil in 3D, the feeling of separation is unavoidable. Without the veil, separation, the path of that which is not, is chosen by free will as a guiding principle (polarity). The heart must be closed for the STS entity because the heart is painfully aware of separation.
Before the veil there was no STS polarity.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Nau7ik - 05-05-2019
(05-04-2019, 06:00 PM)loostudent Wrote:(05-01-2019, 08:11 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: I disagreed at first but I think I understand now: being under the veil in 3D, the feeling of separation is unavoidable. Without the veil, separation, the path of that which is not, is chosen by free will as a guiding principle (polarity). The heart must be closed for the STS entity because the heart is painfully aware of separation.
Before the veil there was no STS polarity.
Yes. I’m talking about post-veil. I worded that wrong, I can see that now.
The choice is made in 3D, these become guiding principles for us. Love, kindness for the STO and separation “wisdom” for the STS. The heart is closed and constricted for the STS entity, it has to be, otherwise in 4D, without a veil, they would be in deep pain. Because separation is illusory. So they cut out the heart and follow falsity until it leads them to the inevitable realization of Unity.
STO entities have an open heart, and they can hear and feel the pain of those stuck in 3D like it was a pain on their own body. (And in reality it is, for all is One). They can’t ignore it.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - AnthroHeart - 05-05-2019
(05-01-2019, 03:15 PM)Cyan Wrote: I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be in the 4th D positive with the veil still in effect, probably very difficult.
In the height of my schizophrenia, I thought I was going to 4D negative with a veil. Because I had positive polarity in a negative density, I could gain no traction and would be stuck at the beginning of 4D negative forever.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - loostudent - 05-30-2019
Hellish experience is not just in the inner planes.
"It is to be noted that among your entities a large percentage of all progression has as catalyst, trauma." (Ra)
The veil accelerated and diversified evolution but it also caused much despair because of experience of life as meaningles and cruel. I guess depression and suicide was not possible before the weil.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Patrick - 05-30-2019
(05-30-2019, 03:36 AM)loostudent Wrote: ... I guess depression and suicide was not possible before the weil.
It was not needed. Everything was fun for the whole incarnation.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Dtris - 05-31-2019
I have seen the explanation of Hell of being the separation from the Creator, I have also seen the explanation that it is self created after death for a time due to the belief that it is what is expected.
Hell is a religious concept that IMO most likely stems from STS interference when the holy books were channeled. The use of the concept of hell is in controlling the believers. It is to impress upon people that a power greater than their own can control their eternal life, and say what is acceptable and what is not.
Suffering in itself is not hell, since suffering can also be full of love. If you and another are starving, and you give the last of your food to someone else, you will suffer from hunger, but also be full of love.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Nau7ik - 05-31-2019
This may be controversial but: where do we think the Maldekians were after they destroyed their planet? They were in the deepest reaches of Hell. The deepest reaches are icy and frozen. Ra said the Maldekians were stuck in a “knot of fear”. No one could reach them. The knot was loosened and they began to pull themselves out of the Hell they put themselves in. But even those hundreds of thousands of years weren’t enough to alleviate the karma of destroying the planet and the civilization. They then decided to incarnate into 2D bodies which were in 3D, therefore veiled. They didn’t know why there were in the “wrong” body after incarnation. The Maldekian’s have mostly finished with incarnating in 2D bodies and are mow moving on with their evolution.
I don’t believe Hell to be eternal. It’s a temporary place in the astral realms which is relatively real. There are higher and lower inner planes. The lower inner planes are devoid of love while the higher inner planes engage love, or the heart chakra. The inner planes correspond to our inner selves. Those in Hell, then, are those who are blocked and distorted in the lower chakras. But mere blockage and distortion isn’t enough to land one in hell. I personally believe that the requirements are the intentional harming of others and the self. One’s state of mind may be a good indicator. A rejection of love and compassion would simply not be compatible in the higher planes. One’s vibration would be too heavy to ascend to those levels. (I think that if one can realize compassion and forgiveness, I.e. the heart, whilst he’s in Hell, then that realization would
pull him out of Hell. Howard Storm’s NDE showed this: he was beaten and spend lying on the ground. He had nothing anymore. Nothing to lose. He had a strange thought to pray to God. He poured his entire heart into the prayer and was pulled out of Hell.)
I see the inner planes as a mirror of the self. It allows us to see ourselves clearly and to heal by understanding. This is all done in between incarnations without a veil. Then we go under the veil, and the learning and testing begins again.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - kristina - 05-31-2019
(05-31-2019, 08:15 AM)Dtris Wrote: I have seen the explanation of Hell of being the separation from the Creator, I have also seen the explanation that it is self created after death for a time due to the belief that it is what is expected.
Hell is a religious concept that IMO most likely stems from STS interference when the holy books were channeled. The use of the concept of hell is in controlling the believers. It is to impress upon people that a power greater than their own can control their eternal life, and say what is acceptable and what is not.
Suffering in itself is not hell, since suffering can also be full of love. If you and another are starving, and you give the last of your food to someone else, you will suffer from hunger, but also be full of love.
IMO, suffering can be a hell as it is subjective
RE: The veil and the "hell" - kristina - 05-31-2019
(05-31-2019, 08:48 AM)Nau7ik Wrote: This may be controversial but: where do we think the Maldekians were after they destroyed their planet? They were in the deepest reaches of Hell. The deepest reaches are icy and frozen. Ra said the Maldekians were stuck in a “knot of fear”. No one could reach them. The knot was loosened and they began to pull themselves out of the Hell they put themselves in. But even those hundreds of thousands of years weren’t enough to alleviate the karma of destroying the planet and the civilization. They then decided to incarnate into 2D bodies which were in 3D, therefore veiled. They didn’t know why there were in the “wrong” body after incarnation. The Maldekian’s have mostly finished with incarnating in 2D bodies and are mow moving on with their evolution.
I don’t believe Hell to be eternal. It’s a temporary place in the astral realms which is relatively real. There are higher and lower inner planes. The lower inner planes are devoid of love while the higher inner planes engage love, or the heart chakra. The inner planes correspond to our inner selves. Those in Hell, then, are those who are blocked and distorted in the lower chakras. But mere blockage and distortion isn’t enough to land one in hell. I personally believe that the requirements are the intentional harming of others and the self. One’s state of mind may be a good indicator. A rejection of love and compassion would simply not be compatible in the higher planes. One’s vibration would be too heavy to ascend to those levels. (I think that if one can realize compassion and forgiveness, I.e. the heart, whilst he’s in Hell, then that realization would
pull him out of Hell. Howard Storm’s NDE showed this: he was beaten and spend lying on the ground. He had nothing anymore. Nothing to lose. He had a strange thought to pray to God. He poured his entire heart into the prayer and was pulled out of Hell.)
I see the inner planes as a mirror of the self. It allows us to see ourselves clearly and to heal by understanding. This is all done in between incarnations without a veil. Then we go under the veil, and the learning and testing begins again.
I couldn't agree more. My line of thinking as well.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Cainite - 05-31-2019
(05-31-2019, 10:07 AM)kristina Wrote:(05-31-2019, 08:15 AM)Dtris Wrote: I have seen the explanation of Hell of being the separation from the Creator, I have also seen the explanation that it is self created after death for a time due to the belief that it is what is expected.
Hell is a religious concept that IMO most likely stems from STS interference when the holy books were channeled. The use of the concept of hell is in controlling the believers. It is to impress upon people that a power greater than their own can control their eternal life, and say what is acceptable and what is not.
Suffering in itself is not hell, since suffering can also be full of love. If you and another are starving, and you give the last of your food to someone else, you will suffer from hunger, but also be full of love.
IMO, suffering can be a hell as it is subjective
Yeah.. I agree with that!
I think a hellish state would more likely be experienced while the creator is in physical incarnation.
That's when the entity loses much clarity as the confederation says.
I also think that after death the entity reviews the lived incarnation, and won't directly experience the suffering it has caused. there will probably just be the realization that the harm had been brought to the self.
If the entity is already polarized negatively to some extent, it won't even be bothered with that I suppose.. and will plan one or more incarnations in which he would hope to make it to 4D negative.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - flofrog - 05-31-2019
I agree Cainite though I think that when reviewing, as a matter of clarity, we may through compassion feel if we wish, temporarily the pain we had others suffer ? just a thought
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Dtris - 05-31-2019
(05-31-2019, 11:14 AM)Cainite Wrote:(05-31-2019, 10:07 AM)kristina Wrote:(05-31-2019, 08:15 AM)Dtris Wrote: I have seen the explanation of Hell of being the separation from the Creator, I have also seen the explanation that it is self created after death for a time due to the belief that it is what is expected.
Hell is a religious concept that IMO most likely stems from STS interference when the holy books were channeled. The use of the concept of hell is in controlling the believers. It is to impress upon people that a power greater than their own can control their eternal life, and say what is acceptable and what is not.
Suffering in itself is not hell, since suffering can also be full of love. If you and another are starving, and you give the last of your food to someone else, you will suffer from hunger, but also be full of love.
IMO, suffering can be a hell as it is subjective
Yeah.. I agree with that!
I think a hellish state would more likely be experienced while the creator is in physical incarnation.
That's when the entity loses much clarity as the confederation says.
I also think that after death the entity reviews the lived incarnation, and won't directly experience the suffering it has caused. there will probably just be the realization that the harm had been brought to the self.
If the entity is already polarized negatively to some extent, it won't even be bothered with that I suppose.. and will plan one or more incarnations in which he would hope to make it to 4D negative.
There are multiple concepts of hell at play here. Depending on which concept you are talking about this makes sense. I am of the opinion that the concept of hell originated with the goal of STS polarization and power over others. So dwelling too much on what hell is or means may not be very useful for STO seekers. YMMV.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - kristina - 06-02-2019
(05-31-2019, 11:14 AM)Cainite Wrote:Curious....If an entity wouldn't directly experience the suffering it has caused as you put it (and I like that), wouldn't that possibly indicate it would be leaning more toward positive polarization but like Nau7ik said, in a tanlge of fear or perhaps guilt?(05-31-2019, 10:07 AM)kristina Wrote:(05-31-2019, 08:15 AM)Dtris Wrote: I have seen the explanation of Hell of being the separation from the Creator, I have also seen the explanation that it is self created after death for a time due to the belief that it is what is expected.
Hell is a religious concept that IMO most likely stems from STS interference when the holy books were channeled. The use of the concept of hell is in controlling the believers. It is to impress upon people that a power greater than their own can control their eternal life, and say what is acceptable and what is not.
Suffering in itself is not hell, since suffering can also be full of love. If you and another are starving, and you give the last of your food to someone else, you will suffer from hunger, but also be full of love.
IMO, suffering can be a hell as it is subjective
I also think that after death the entity reviews the lived incarnation, and won't directly experience the suffering it has caused. there will probably just be the realization that the harm had been brought to the self.
If the entity is already polarized negatively to some extent, it won't even be bothered with that I suppose.. and will plan one or more incarnations in which he would hope to make it to 4D negative.
I've often said if you want to snuff the human spirit of life out let them know guilt and regret.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - kristina - 06-02-2019
(05-31-2019, 02:19 PM)Dtris Wrote:(05-31-2019, 11:14 AM)Cainite Wrote:(05-31-2019, 10:07 AM)kristina Wrote:(05-31-2019, 08:15 AM)Dtris Wrote: I have seen the explanation of Hell of being the separation from the Creator, I have also seen the explanation that it is self created after death for a time due to the belief that it is what is expected.
Hell is a religious concept that IMO most likely stems from STS interference when the holy books were channeled. The use of the concept of hell is in controlling the believers. It is to impress upon people that a power greater than their own can control their eternal life, and say what is acceptable and what is not.
Suffering in itself is not hell, since suffering can also be full of love. If you and another are starving, and you give the last of your food to someone else, you will suffer from hunger, but also be full of love.
IMO, suffering can be a hell as it is subjective
Yeah.. I agree with that!
I think a hellish state would more likely be experienced while the creator is in physical incarnation.
That's when the entity loses much clarity as the confederation says.
I also think that after death the entity reviews the lived incarnation, and won't directly experience the suffering it has caused. there will probably just be the realization that the harm had been brought to the self.
If the entity is already polarized negatively to some extent, it won't even be bothered with that I suppose.. and will plan one or more incarnations in which he would hope to make it to 4D negative.
There are multiple concepts of hell at play here. Depending on which concept you are talking about this makes sense. I am of the opinion that the concept of hell originated with the goal of STS polarization and power over others. So dwelling too much on what hell is or means may not be very useful for STO seekers. YMMV.
Yeah, yeah. No doubt the concept of hell littered the Bible and no doubt it was an entire group of STS priests that worked with the government of it's time to instill fear (red ray) in the seeker. As in many points of history the Bible was the only source of accepted religious literature. Christianity was to be practiced or else! And somehow this was absorbed into the human psyche. I mean even if you didn't believe in hell you may think in private, "what if there were?" I'm not sure about that, that was me supposing that one could do that. However, like most of us, we come from Christianity and I can't speak for the lot but I can say for myself, I felt guilt at first for denying the god that was taught to me and the christ that was taught to me and I had to balance that (guilt) within myself. So....there are those that were taught the same garbarge, believed it and yet they denied it but never balanced the denial. And those may be the entities that when they die are afraid to face what they "think" is hell for the (bad) things they did. That's why I say it's subjective. As the entity could have stolen food from a family to feed his small child and may believe he deserves the hell in the Bible.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - AnthroHeart - 06-02-2019
The church so conditions people that even though they think they don't do wrong, they still think they deserve hell.
They say that all people are born sinners.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Nau7ik - 06-02-2019
(06-02-2019, 07:44 AM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: The church so conditions people that even though they think they don't do wrong, they still think they deserve hell.
They say that all people are born sinners.
The doctrine of “original sin” is false and very harmful! It posits humanity to be inherently sinful. This comes from a misunderstanding of the Garden of Eden myth. The myth should not be taken literally. It is an allegory for consciousness. The eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (that’s a mouthful of words) is an allegory for the awakening to self-awareness. It is a necessary step on the path of spiritual evolution. How can one say that we have fallen from God’s grace? Nay, we are becoming and that is good in the eyes of our Lord.
Humanity shall taste the fruit from the Tree of Life come fourth density. The Tree of Life gives us immortality. This is analogous to what Christ said about rising to eternal life. The veil is lifted in 4D and we realize there is no true death. We never stop “being”.
flofrog Wrote:I agree Cainite though I think that when reviewing, as a matter of clarity, we may through compassion feel if we wish, temporarily the pain we had others suffer ? just a thought
I think feeling is a necessary part of the healing. There is no veil in time/space. It will be felt during the review whether we want to or not. That’s just my opinion.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - AnthroHeart - 06-02-2019
(06-02-2019, 08:43 AM)Nau7ik Wrote:flofrog Wrote:I agree Cainite though I think that when reviewing, as a matter of clarity, we may through compassion feel if we wish, temporarily the pain we had others suffer ? just a thought
I think feeling is a necessary part of the healing. There is no veil in time/space. It will be felt during the review whether we want to or not. That’s just my opinion.
We will feel it, but we can control how much we experience at a time so we don't get overwhelmed in the life review.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Nau7ik - 06-03-2019
(06-02-2019, 08:54 AM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote:(06-02-2019, 08:43 AM)Nau7ik Wrote:flofrog Wrote:I agree Cainite though I think that when reviewing, as a matter of clarity, we may through compassion feel if we wish, temporarily the pain we had others suffer ? just a thought
I think feeling is a necessary part of the healing. There is no veil in time/space. It will be felt during the review whether we want to or not. That’s just my opinion.
We will feel it, but we can control how much we experience at a time so we don't get overwhelmed in the life review.
Yes! I believe this is true and accurate. We have guides and angelic helpers during the review, so they will be there to catch us if we trip or fall, so to speak.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - Cainite - 06-03-2019
(06-02-2019, 07:25 AM)kristina Wrote:Why would it indicate that?(05-31-2019, 11:14 AM)Cainite Wrote:Curious....If an entity wouldn't directly experience the suffering it has caused as you put it (and I like that), wouldn't that possibly indicate it would be leaning more toward positive polarization but like Nau7ik said, in a tanlge of fear or perhaps guilt?(05-31-2019, 10:07 AM)kristina Wrote:(05-31-2019, 08:15 AM)Dtris Wrote: I have seen the explanation of Hell of being the separation from the Creator, I have also seen the explanation that it is self created after death for a time due to the belief that it is what is expected.
Hell is a religious concept that IMO most likely stems from STS interference when the holy books were channeled. The use of the concept of hell is in controlling the believers. It is to impress upon people that a power greater than their own can control their eternal life, and say what is acceptable and what is not.
Suffering in itself is not hell, since suffering can also be full of love. If you and another are starving, and you give the last of your food to someone else, you will suffer from hunger, but also be full of love.
IMO, suffering can be a hell as it is subjective
I also think that after death the entity reviews the lived incarnation, and won't directly experience the suffering it has caused. there will probably just be the realization that the harm had been brought to the self.
If the entity is already polarized negatively to some extent, it won't even be bothered with that I suppose.. and will plan one or more incarnations in which he would hope to make it to 4D negative.
I've often said if you want to snuff the human spirit of life out let them know guilt and regret.
I'm not sure if I understand the question.
RE: The veil and the "hell" - flofrog - 06-03-2019
Yes, I too thinkthat the concept of hell was an attempt t to control others actions by fear. And in the dark hour hell can exist in our brain too.