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+--- Thread: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers (/showthread.php?tid=16658)
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - Cyan - 12-20-2018
IT seems to me, on my glance, that the universe prefers lazyness and will reward effort for sure but will reward effort to maintain lazyness more. It seems that the best answer to the dilemma is to enjoy the moment, or, be lazy, could be wrong but it seems like that.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - Cainite - 12-20-2018
The sleepers provide or help STS entities provide suffering for the path.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 12-22-2018
(12-20-2018, 02:57 PM)Cyan Wrote: IT seems to me, on my glance, that the universe prefers lazyness and will reward effort for sure but will reward effort to maintain lazyness more. It seems that the best answer to the dilemma is to enjoy the moment, or, be lazy, could be wrong but it seems like that.
At first glance, it would appear to me that the universe would prefer that which is in alignment with its own nature, which is growth and evolution.
I get that more growth occurs because of the resistance. One must need lift heavy weights.to build muscle. But this dynamic of counterresistance is amply supplied betwixt STO and STS. There doesn't, at first glance, appear to be an evolutionary need for the "sinkhole of indifference".
I dunno.... Remain confused...
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 12-22-2018
(12-20-2018, 03:29 PM)Cainite Wrote: The sleepers provide or help STS entities provide suffering for the path.
But STS is just as much at risk of depolarization by engagement with the sinkhole. It takes much more work to grow at the expense of others, than to simply languish on the sidelines.
Yet I think you may be alluding to the nature of STS to feed off of the energies produced by ignorance and suffering... Is that right?
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - Cainite - 12-22-2018
(12-22-2018, 02:02 AM)redchartreuse Wrote:(12-20-2018, 03:29 PM)Cainite Wrote: The sleepers provide or help STS entities provide suffering for the path.
But STS is just as much at risk of depolarization by engagement with the sinkhole. It takes much more work to grow at the expense of others, than to simply languish on the sidelines.
Yet I think you may be alluding to the nature of STS to feed off of the energies produced by ignorance and suffering... Is that right?
Only 5D STS entities avoid engagement with others.
The negative humans do engage.. in fact they may make themselves quite popular. and have the unpolarized do their work for them.
The ignorant support STS entities and make them kings.. without the ignorance of the unpolarized entities, STS will have no power.
Positively polarized entities would never allow STS entities to rule over them.
Just my humble opinion.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - kristina - 02-24-2019
(12-08-2018, 12:48 PM)Agua Wrote:Hi there!(12-08-2018, 12:31 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: Hmm. Perhaps I misstated the question.
It is not a question of why certain souls are at a different stage of their evolution.
It is a question of why so many would would choose to incarnate into an environment that does not appear to be suitable for their continued learning.
It might be a misunderstanding!
This environment is excellent for continued learning!
The bigger the challenges, the faster and the more you learn and evolve!
And, one more thought on your initial question:
I suggest pondering what your understanding of "awakened" is and if you view yourself as awakened.
21:9
Questioner: Now, when the 75,000-year cycle started, [the] life span was approximately nine hundred years, average. What was the process and scheduling of— mechanism, shall I say, of reincarnation at that time, and how did the time in between incarnations into third-density physical apply to the growth of the mind/body/spirit complex?
Ra: I am Ra. This query is more complex than most. We shall begin. The incarnation pattern of the beginning third-density mind/body/spirit complex begins in darkness, for you may think or consider of your density as one of, as you may say, a sleep and a forgetting. This is the only plane of forgettingIt is necessary for the third-density entity to forget so that the mechanisms of confusion or free will may operate upon the newly individuated consciousness complex.
-end-
And we will take a go around as many times as need be to get what our soul needs. I hope this helps.
L&L
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 02-28-2019
(12-22-2018, 02:48 AM)Cainite Wrote:(12-22-2018, 02:02 AM)redchartreuse Wrote:(12-20-2018, 03:29 PM)Cainite Wrote: The sleepers provide or help STS entities provide suffering for the path.
But STS is just as much at risk of depolarization by engagement with the sinkhole. It takes much more work to grow at the expense of others, than to simply languish on the sidelines.
Yet I think you may be alluding to the nature of STS to feed off of the energies produced by ignorance and suffering... Is that right?
Only 5D STS entities avoid engagement with others.
The negative humans do engage.. in fact they may make themselves quite popular. and have the unpolarized do their work for them.
The ignorant support STS entities and make them kings.. without the ignorance of the unpolarized entities, STS will have no power.
Positively polarized entities would never allow STS entities to rule over them.
Just my humble opinion.
It's an interesting perspective! According to my read, a 5D STO entity may choose to do solitary work as well. But this is sort of beside the point.
If what you are saying is correct, then those in the "sinkhole" are available to be manipulated by STS entities and perform work on their behalf. Meanwhile, STO interaction with those in the "sinkhole" would likely result in frustration at their failure to accept the service (since they did not ask for it), thus increasing the likelihood of negative emotional reaction on the part of the STO entity, and possible depolarization.
Either way- it would appear that the "sinkhole" benefits STS, but not STO. Where is the balance, then?
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 02-28-2019
(02-24-2019, 06:44 PM)kristina Wrote: And we will take a go around as many times as need be to get what our soul needs. I hope this helps.
Hi kristina,
The material appears to imply that, the longer one remains in the sinkhole, the more inertia develops resulting in fewer and fewer opportunities to polarize. Therefore, even if the soul continues to "go around" many times, their incarnations become more and more likely to remain spiritually asleep.
Ra says, "To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping."
But then, what is the endgame for those asleep in the sinkhole? Since we can assume that they will awaken eventually, and begin the return journey to Source, then what kind of impulse could possibly awaken them?
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - AnthroHeart - 02-28-2019
(02-28-2019, 02:14 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:(02-24-2019, 06:44 PM)kristina Wrote: And we will take a go around as many times as need be to get what our soul needs. I hope this helps.
Hi kristina,
The material appears to imply that, the longer one remains in the sinkhole, the more inertia develops resulting in fewer and fewer opportunities to polarize. Therefore, even if the soul continues to "go around" many times, their incarnations become more and more likely to remain spiritually asleep.
Ra says, "To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping."
But then, what is the endgame for those asleep in the sinkhole? Since we can assume that they will awaken eventually, and begin the return journey to Source, then what kind of impulse could possibly awaken them?
I don't know what could awaken some people. I know someone who has had out of body experiences. But he still doesn't believe they are real.
He said he had smoked pot then, so that could be why, but I don't think just that because he's a hard-core skeptic.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - Cyan - 02-28-2019
What is wrong with sleeping, its one of the most fun experiences and adventures out there
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 02-28-2019
(02-28-2019, 03:48 PM)Cyan Wrote: What is wrong with sleeping, its one of the most fun experiences and adventures out there
LOL- There is of course nothing "wrong" with sleeping, in the ultimate sense.
However, relative to a soul's intention to spiritually grow while incarnated, it is not an appropriate use of one's time.
54:24 "The purpose of incarnative existence is evolution of mind, body, and spirit."
And also, sleeping here in this place is like trying to get a nap in on an airplane flying through a thunderstorm. For those inclined to sleep, perhaps a place more like a gently swaying hammock under a palm tree would be more suitable.
But... I think we've covered this before. Were you awake?
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 02-28-2019
(02-28-2019, 02:37 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: I don't know what could awaken some people. I know someone who has had out of body experiences. But he still doesn't believe they are real.
He said he had smoked pot then, so that could be why, but I don't think just that because he's a hard-core skeptic.
Reminds me of my father... He suffers from chronic pain. Medical treatments fail him, yet he remains "highly skeptical" that there could be psychogenic causes of pain, or that processing his emotions could possibly be of benefit.
Even when presented with scientific articles claiming as much, he just ignores it and gets angry when anybody challenges the seeming cause of pain in his body or suggests an alternative to standard medical treatment.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - unity100 - 03-01-2019
(11-28-2018, 11:00 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: I'm very curious to know... what do all these "spiritually asleep" people look like from the other side? Are there just throngs of souls floating around in the universe that decide to have an incarnation whereby little to nothing is learned? Why would a soul choose this?
The 'other side' is an illusion system as complex as the physical one we live in, according to what Ra says. Moreover, from Ra material and also other literature (recent spiritual literature, religions, ancient belief systems etc) we understand that this world is a reflection/counterpart to the other one and vice versa. "As above as below" is a saying in christian literature which reflects this i believe.
So those entities would just 'look' (or feel) like whatever reflects their current state on in time/space. Just like how their manners, even clothing or the way they behave and their activities reflect their current state in physical reality. Except according to the illusion system that exists in time/space.
Its not a matter of 'choice'. Everyone does what they seek to do. Its not like they may do something much different and record great progress despite it is not in their capabilities to do so yet, or their time for that has not come.
And in another facet, there is no such thing as 'learning and progressing and succeeding' and attaining 'something better'. Existence is not a race or a ladder of success, in which rewards will be awarded to those who 'succeed'. This is valid for 3d harvest, 4d harvest, whatever landmark you may imagine.
Every entity experiences what it wants to experience and follows a route which it wants to follow. If that route passes from what you call 'asleep mode' on this planet at this point in time, they pass from that juncture. Whereas your route seem to pass from 'pondering and getting appalled at the entities who choose to be in asleep mode' at this point in your journey, and you seem to be passing from that juncture.
That's all there is to it.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 03-01-2019
(03-01-2019, 06:42 PM)unity100 Wrote:(11-28-2018, 11:00 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: I'm very curious to know... what do all these "spiritually asleep" people look like from the other side? Are there just throngs of souls floating around in the universe that decide to have an incarnation whereby little to nothing is learned? Why would a soul choose this?
The 'other side' is an illusion system as complex as the physical one we live in, according to what Ra says. Moreover, from Ra material and also other literature (recent spiritual literature, religions, ancient belief systems etc) we understand that this world is a reflection/counterpart to the other one and vice versa. "As above as below" is a saying in christian literature which reflects this i believe.
So those entities would just 'look' (or feel) like whatever reflects their current state on in time/space. Just like how their manners, even clothing or the way they behave and their activities reflect their current state in physical reality. Except according to the illusion system that exists in time/space.
Its not a matter of 'choice'. Everyone does what they seek to do. Its not like they may do something much different and record great progress despite it is not in their capabilities to do so yet, or their time for that has not come.
And in another facet, there is no such thing as 'learning and progressing and succeeding' and attaining 'something better'. Existence is not a race or a ladder of success, in which rewards will be awarded to those who 'succeed'. This is valid for 3d harvest, 4d harvest, whatever landmark you may imagine.
Every entity experiences what it wants to experience and follows a route which it wants to follow. If that route passes from what you call 'asleep mode' on this planet at this point in time, they pass from that juncture. Whereas your route seem to pass from 'pondering and getting appalled at the entities who choose to be in asleep mode' at this point in your journey, and you seem to be passing from that juncture.
That's all there is to it.
I can understand and appreciate your points, however to my perception there appears to be more to it. I have two sticking points, one more directly relavent to this thread and one a bit oblique, but which still comes to bear.
The first: Ra says in 54:24 "The purpose of incarnative existence is evolution of mind, body, and spirit."
I do not feel they are mincing words here, and even made a point to correct a distortion in the Questioner's mind when he stated the purpose of incarnation was to experience catalyst.
So this still does not jive with me. Souls not wishing to evolve are free not to incarnate. And even if they do incarnate, why would they incarnate here/now instead of on some sphere where the catalyst is not so intense?
I guess what I am attempting to grasp is if there is some higher purpose to be served by this "sinkhole" phenomenon other than just creating a drag on the system for everyone else.
The secondary sticking point for me is, while I agree existence is not a "race" the material mentions that the Solar Logos was attempting to "speed up" evolution. This seems like an odd objective for an entity whose beingness transcends time. And it also seems odd that Ra did not mention the purpose for this, unless perhaps it was still a mystery to them.
Considering all the extra trauma and suffering this little "experiment" has resulted in, not to mention its repeated utter failure to attain the stated objective, it seems to me that an explanation of its purpose would be helpful (at least for me) in coming to some sense of equanimity with the situation.
An entire planets worth of souls destroying their home world, becoming stuck in a knot of fear impenetrable by the Highest Light for 100,000 years, and then being relocated to another sphere where they muck up the evolutionary process for everyone else seems like a lot to shoulder for the sake of some kind of cosmic experiment or game.
I am having a really difficult time reconciling the notion of an all-loving and wise Solar Logos with the anomalous situation that has developed here in this Solar System. Frankly, the whole thing seems quite careless to me on the part of the Solar Logos. Unless, perhaps, even a Solar Logos can experience some cosmic correlate of mental illness, I struggle to find a toehold for feeling compassion toward this entity.
I also find it shakes my spiritual faith to the very core, and that I must continually remind myself that our system is but a speck of dust in the larger Creation, where this sort of anomaly is clearly not the norm, in order to stave off thoughts suggesting that both I and this system would be better off without me in it, since the situation appears hopeless and I appear impotent to be of any real service to these entities in the sinkhole.
What may appear like pointless bitching and complaining to you, is me attempting to restore that faith.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - flofrog - 03-02-2019
(03-01-2019, 09:37 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: The secondary sticking point for me is, while I agree existence is not a "race" the material mentions that the Solar Logos was attempting to "speed up" evolution. This seems like an odd objective for an entity whose beingness transcends time. And it also seems odd that Ra did not mention the purpose for this, unless perhaps it was still a mystery to them.
I could be so wrong but if I think about this, I see this from the Logos as perhaps in fact an act of compassion as wishing to help Earth to get faster, as helping her soul as a planet to get faster to 4th and 5th density considering the damages done to her in third..
Just my feeling,
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 03-02-2019
(03-02-2019, 01:00 AM)flofrog Wrote: I could be so wrong but if I think about this, I see this from the Logos as perhaps in fact an act of compassion as wishing to help Earth to get faster, as helping her soul as a planet to get faster to 4th and 5th density considering the damages done to her in third..
Well one objective for us here is to meld our feeling with our intellect, if we wish to reach for understanding. And since compassion lay at the intersection of these, it is certainly a fine place to make a presumption of intent on behalf of the Solar Logos.
However, in considering the outcomes of planetary evolution in this Solar System, the results reported by Ra on Maldek, Mars, and Venus all precede that of our current Earth. The two predominant themes we have here are A. Extreme compassion unchecked by wisdom, resulting in martyrdom and unforeseen consequences contrary to the basic intention, and B. Extreme bellicosity, this being the result of a dearth of both wisdom and compassion, leading to self-destruction.
Our planetary entity, Gaia, would appear to fall under category A. Having offered herself to house these traumatized souls from nearby planets, it would seem the basic idea is that simply loving these souls and welcoming them with open arms would be sufficient to allow them to resume their evolution. Yet again, this did not occur, and the result has been that of placing herself, and all of her inhabitants, in jeopardy of further failed harvests, and potentially, another premature end to the program for evolution.
Certainly, we are in a position of total ignorance as to a number of factors which might solve this puzzle. However, we do have one investigational tool which we may rely upon to make inferences, which is that Hermetic principle referred to previously by both unity100 and myself:
As above, so below.
So then, let's take a good look around us. What do we see? Is there any single unifying attitude that can explain both outcomes, A and B, as we look upon our fellow cohabitants of Earth? Is there any one thing that would explain the development of entities both toward extreme bellicosity and compassion? I believe the answer is yes.
I believe the answer to this is the attitude of fanaticism. An attitude of such blind adherence to a particular ideology or philosophy, that it refuses to acknowledge any evidence to suggest that it might be mistaken. The sort of posturing whereby abject failure to achieve a stated goal is met with a doubling-down, and a perverse insistence in one's own righteousness, even despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
I'm sure you would agree- this type of fanatical attitude can be found spattered all over this beautiful little rock of ours.
We can see it in the religious fanatic, who performs destructive acts in the hopes of martyring itself and finding favor with some psychopathic deity. Or in the military man, who believes in their heart of hearts that world peace will be found with the deployment of more bullets and bombs.
We can see it in the loving parents of a hopeless addict, who enable their child's self-destructive behaviors at the expense of their own health and sanity, and those of other family members, in the mistaken belief that simply loving an addict will cure them of their affliction.
We can see it in partisan politics, where both the Reds and the Blues believe if they could just get "their guy (or girl)" into office, then all our troubles would miraculously be resolved, and that every problem facing society is because of that "other guy" who overturned a policy just before it was about to bear fruit.
We can even see it in the denizens of the sinkhole, who are too busy fanaticising about sports, or fashion, or celebrity gossip, to bother attending to their own spiritual growth to the slightest degree.
We can see it in the so-called "leader of the free world."
Certainly, we can see this. And so let us now apply our Hermetic key in order to get a glimpse into the mind of the Solar Logos. What do we find?
We find this philosophy that maximizing the veil, and thus the distortion of "free-will" shall result in the acceleration of spiritual growth. Except that did not happen... Again... And again. Yet, the reaction to these failed outcomes appears to be this same sort of insistence that we just need to "try again". That, somehow THIS time, it will all work out as planned.
So... How could this be an expression of compassion? Recklessly risking the well-being of entities placed under one's care in order to prove some kind of cosmic point.
This is where I become lost. Yet I also remain willing to be "so wrong" if for nothing else than the alternative is frankly terrifying to me.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - Cainite - 03-02-2019
(02-28-2019, 02:07 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: Either way- it would appear that the "sinkhole" benefits STS, but not STO. Where is the balance, then?
It benefits the STO and that's really its purpose to help us polarize (grow) faster.
gifts such as wisdom, faith, compassion, etc are achieved rarely without experiences of suffering.
I also wanted to point out that there is protection for negative entities, and in a similar way there is comfort for most of those who choose to sleep.
I doubt they would possess the sensitivity and generally much reason to care that could make life here intense enough for them.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 03-02-2019
(03-02-2019, 02:55 AM)Cainite Wrote:(02-28-2019, 02:07 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: Either way- it would appear that the "sinkhole" benefits STS, but not STO. Where is the balance, then?
It benefits the STO and that's really its purpose to help us polarize (grow) faster.
gifts such as wisdom, faith, compassion, etc are achieved rarely without experiences of suffering.
I also wanted to point out that there is protection for negative entities, and in a similar way there is comfort for most of those who choose to sleep.
I doubt they would possess the sensitivity and generally much reason to care that could make life here intense enough for them.
Oh, but they DO care! They care SO much about the outcomes of sporting events and sports statistics. They care about style and fashion, and snapping up great deals at closeout sales. They care about burgers and fries and macaroni and cheese. They care what the Kardashians tweeted last Sunday, or what Beyonce wore to the awards ceremony...
They care a LOT. They just also happen to be indifferent toward anything resembling growth or evolution of mind, body, and spirit. i.e., the very purpose of their incarnation.
Where is the balance?
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - Cainite - 03-02-2019
(03-02-2019, 03:17 AM)redchartreuse Wrote:Yeah but that's caring for distractions and not the same thing IMO.(03-02-2019, 02:55 AM)Cainite Wrote:(02-28-2019, 02:07 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: Either way- it would appear that the "sinkhole" benefits STS, but not STO. Where is the balance, then?
It benefits the STO and that's really its purpose to help us polarize (grow) faster.
gifts such as wisdom, faith, compassion, etc are achieved rarely without experiences of suffering.
I also wanted to point out that there is protection for negative entities, and in a similar way there is comfort for most of those who choose to sleep.
I doubt they would possess the sensitivity and generally much reason to care that could make life here intense enough for them.
Oh, but they DO care! They care SO much about the outcomes of sporting events and sports statistics. They care about style and fashion, and snapping up great deals at closeout sales. They care about burgers and fries and macaroni and cheese. They care what the Kardashians tweeted last Sunday, or what Beyonce wore to the awards ceremony...
They care a LOT. They just also happen to be indifferent toward anything resembling growth or evolution of mind, body, and spirit. i.e., the very purpose of their incarnation.
Where is the balance?
I think I read in the channelings that STO ppl may find the world a lot darker a place.
btw I also don't get why they all stand in front of a TV in a store watching football (soccer).
That's more like their interest though... the same way I'm interested about doing what I like.
Also conformity has a role in how they think they should be or what to do/want... fashion for women, sports for men for example..
The polarized being realizes that the external world (illusion) is boring or cruel, ... that would help motivate him to seek within for satisfaction.. and look beyond how things appear to be.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 03-03-2019
(03-02-2019, 05:18 AM)Cainite Wrote: Yeah but that's caring for distractions and not the same thing IMO.
I think I read in the channelings that STO ppl may find the world a lot darker a place.
btw I also don't get why they all stand in front of a TV in a store watching football (soccer).
That's more like their interest though... the same way I'm interested about doing what I like.
Also conformity has a role in how they think they should be or what to do/want... fashion for women, sports for men for example..
The polarized being realizes that the external world (illusion) is boring or cruel, ... that would help motivate him to seek within for satisfaction.. and look beyond how things appear to be.
The more I ponder on this, the more it appears that the impression of negative philosophy onto this sphere IS the balance to naive compassion, i.e. martyrdom.
As for those in the sinkhole, despite some playful suggestions regarding their propensity for sleeping in strange places, they continue to appear to me to be more useful for the negative than for the positive.
The primary goal of the negative polarity here is to convert other-selves to the negative, so that they may be subjected to manipulation and eventual enslavement to the agenda of those at the top of the power pyramid. However, a secondary goal is to move positively oriented entities into the sinkhole, since this results in an increase of spiritual entropy that makes the path forward more difficult for ALL positive entities incarnated here.
For the positive polarity, attempting to guide a negatively oriented being into the sinkhole is not a desirable outcome.
While the negative may still manipulate those in the sinkhole to serve their agenda and gain polarity, the positive does not have an "equal and opposite" move, since manipulating others toward the positive does not yield a polarity gain. The reason being that manipulation itself is a negative tactic.
The most that the positive can offer to the sinkhole is to "send them love and light" and yet this would appear to be (based on results) a fairly ineffective means of creating change. Which, if we really think about it, makes a lot of sense due to the fact that "love and light" is sent to entities at all times, from all points everywhere. Adding one's own personal vibrations to the mix, while noble, is like adding a few extra drops of salt water into an ocean.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - xise - 03-03-2019
(12-08-2018, 12:42 PM)IndigoGeminiWolf Wrote: Being awake is hard. You then worry about how you're doing.
Some people just needed a break. So they incarnate and don't wake up.
It's much easier on them that way.
Sometimes I wish I were still asleep.
Then I could still harvest and not worry about it.
Most people worry in general.
The process of waking up is ultimately learning to how to perceive things - perceive the love - such that worry no longer arises. Remember, worry and anxiety are based on fear somewhere deep in the mind (or on the surface), and fear is based on believing in lack of love, though on the surface fear and worry appear cloak themselves in reason and reasonability. Fear always comes from internal distorted perspectives on love that can be changed.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - xise - 03-03-2019
(12-09-2018, 02:25 AM)redchartreuse Wrote:Quote:if this is such a spiritually relevant time with the hierarchy of incarnations being given to those with the best chance of moving towards love/unity why are the masses not stirring?”
Bingo. If we are to believe what Q'uo explains about the "seniority system" of incarnation, then we must conclude that souls of these hundreds of millions of people languishing in the sinkhole of indifference are actually the most likely to grow and evolve as a result of incarnating here.
So therefore.. either I am very confused about Q'uos teachings here, or something has gone quite amiss with respect to the way souls are choosing when/where to incarnate.
Could this be an issue purely related to math?
Not a very satisfying answer, but for hypothetical purposes say if incarnating on Earth these senior people have a .01% chance of becoming awake enough to make the choice, and other non-senior entities would have a smaller .0001% to awaken if they came here, would that not both account for Quo's statement and our own seeming observations that few people on earth seem awake?
For a certain subset to be "most likely", in general lay english langauge terms, does not imply a specific number. For example, to draw another hypothetical, well-fed children, versus malnourished children, are the "most likely" group to become child prodigies/genuises, but child prodigies/genuises are still exceedingly rare regardless.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - flofrog - 03-03-2019
(12-09-2018, 02:25 AM)redchartreuse Wrote: Bingo. If we are to believe what Q'uo explains about the "seniority system" of incarnation, then we must conclude that souls of these hundreds of millions of people languishing in the sinkhole of indifference are actually the most likely to grow and evolve as a result of incarnating here.
So therefore.. either I am very confused about Q'uos teachings here, or something has gone quite amiss with respect to the way souls are choosing when/where to incarnate.
I'm OK with either possibility. Or some other option I haven't seen. But speculating about my own level of wokeness doesn't really come to bear on the question one way or another.
Since clearly, if I were "fully awake" myself, I would probably not be asking the question, or even be incarnated here/now to be able to ask it.
lol you probably know the answer to that question really well, except... it is veiled !!!
you might be quite awake and find the chaotic state of third density quite horrific in regards of love and wisdom !!!!!
About the sink hole of indifference, I still think, for my part, that it doesn't really exist, just because I have a feeling it is really difficult to live in in indifference without making some sort of even minimalist choice every day just because you do have to survive.
So we may be living completely in the illusion and fighting petty fights every minute of the day without being what is considered awake, but it doesn't take away the fact that even being at a low petty level, there is still fear, anxiety, doubt, sorrow, intense hurt, and it is really difficult to escape any challenge..
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 03-03-2019
(03-03-2019, 01:36 AM)xise Wrote: though on the surface fear and worry appear cloak themselves in reason and reasonability.
Just to be clear, are you saying that reasonability is always fear in disguise? Or simply that fear often disguises itself as reason?
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 03-03-2019
(03-03-2019, 01:42 AM)xise Wrote: Could this be an issue purely related to math?
Not a very satisfying answer, but for hypothetical purposes say if incarnating on Earth these senior people have a .01% chance of becoming awake enough to make the choice, and other non-senior entities would have a smaller .0001% to awaken if they came here, would that not both account for Quo's statement and our own seeming observations that few people on earth seem awake?
Possibly so. It would, at least, account for the seeming disparity.
Yet, besides those few homegrown terran souls, and all those masses relocated from nearby planets, there are also some souls coming in from the far reaches of the galaxy who have determined that this is the best place for them to evolve. In which case, I suppose we must once again conclude that the conditions here are just not that generally suitable for spiritual growth, else we would have many more of them here.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - Cainite - 03-03-2019
(03-03-2019, 01:16 AM)redchartreuse Wrote:(03-02-2019, 05:18 AM)Cainite Wrote: Yeah but that's caring for distractions and not the same thing IMO.
I think I read in the channelings that STO ppl may find the world a lot darker a place.
btw I also don't get why they all stand in front of a TV in a store watching football (soccer).
That's more like their interest though... the same way I'm interested about doing what I like.
Also conformity has a role in how they think they should be or what to do/want... fashion for women, sports for men for example..
The polarized being realizes that the external world (illusion) is boring or cruel, ... that would help motivate him to seek within for satisfaction.. and look beyond how things appear to be.
The more I ponder on this, the more it appears that the impression of negative philosophy onto this sphere IS the balance to naive compassion, i.e. martyrdom.
As for those in the sinkhole, despite some playful suggestions regarding their propensity for sleeping in strange places, they continue to appear to me to be more useful for the negative than for the positive.
The primary goal of the negative polarity here is to convert other-selves to the negative, so that they may be subjected to manipulation and eventual enslavement to the agenda of those at the top of the power pyramid. However, a secondary goal is to move positively oriented entities into the sinkhole, since this results in an increase of spiritual entropy that makes the path forward more difficult for ALL positive entities incarnated here.
For the positive polarity, attempting to guide a negatively oriented being into the sinkhole is not a desirable outcome.
While the negative may still manipulate those in the sinkhole to serve their agenda and gain polarity, the positive does not have an "equal and opposite" move, since manipulating others toward the positive does not yield a polarity gain. The reason being that manipulation itself is a negative tactic.
The most that the positive can offer to the sinkhole is to "send them love and light" and yet this would appear to be (based on results) a fairly ineffective means of creating change. Which, if we really think about it, makes a lot of sense due to the fact that "love and light" is sent to entities at all times, from all points everywhere. Adding one's own personal vibrations to the mix, while noble, is like adding a few extra drops of salt water into an ocean.
Yeah.. it's not very fair.
My teacher (life) has been harsh at times.. awakening wasn't easy. it's still difficult.
but I still believe our contributions can be helpful enough..
My higherself thinks I should concentrate on keeping my heart chakra open now.
I asked which energy center should I be concerned with? and he showed me a phone number that included only fours and a few zeroes. then the color ''green''.
Maybe that's the true awakening that awaits me. and not this one.
I don't think even then things will seem fair though.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - redchartreuse - 03-03-2019
(03-03-2019, 02:44 AM)flofrog Wrote: lol you probably know the answer to that question really well, except... it is veiled !!!
Quote:you might be quite awake and find the chaotic state of third density quite horrific in regards of love and wisdom !!!!!
Indeed. Well, personally speaking, I have moved the needle from "horrified" to "mystified" so I guess that is a sign of progress...
Quote:About the sink hole of indifference, I still think, for my part, that it doesn't really exist, just because I have a feeling it is really difficult to live in in indifference without making some sort of even minimalist choice every day just because you do have to survive.
Well, not to get too technical, but if we frame this in terms of ecological systems, survival and growth are often at odds with one another, given the available resources.
To an entity focused on survival, growth/change is a definite threat. Because growth requires adaptation and increasing use of more varied resources. For the purposes of survival, it is typically best to "stick with what you know."
However, taking this line of thought we once again arrive at a paradox, since those in the sinkhole would appear- in the ultimate sense- to be self-selecting for nonviability on this particular sphere.
Quote:So we may be living completely in the illusion and fighting petty fights every minute of the day without being what is considered awake, but it doesn't take away the fact that even being at a low petty level, there is still fear, anxiety, doubt, sorrow, intense hurt, and it is really difficult to escape any challenge..
True. Yet even a second density being eventually learns not to be fearful of its own shadow, or to endlessly chase its own tail.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - unity100 - 03-05-2019
(12-20-2018, 02:57 PM)Cyan Wrote: IT seems to me, on my glance, that the universe prefers lazyness and will reward effort for sure but will reward effort to maintain lazyness more. It seems that the best answer to the dilemma is to enjoy the moment, or, be lazy, could be wrong but it seems like that.
Such obsessions like 'effort', 'laziness', 'reward' etc are cultural obsessions of the currently existing societal construct on this planet.
There is no such thing as effort, laziness, reward gimmicks in universal flow: If something must happen or must not happen, it inclines to happen or not happen. And it does that in the way it is supposed to do. Or not do.
Any entity - which includes every single thing in existence, from photons to smcs - must follow their own path in the flow of existence. If this passes from a point of effort, they must pass from that point. If it passes from a point of laziness, they must pass through it. If it passes from a point of effort being exerted despite there should have been laziness and the entity must learn it, it must pass from that point. If its a path through a point where the entity is lazy despite it should have been doing effort in order to learn to do that - same.
Existence is about every entity following a path towards a direction along with others. It is a flow.
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - kristina - 05-02-2019
(12-08-2018, 12:31 PM)redchartreuse Wrote: Hmm. Perhaps I misstated the question.
It is not a question of why certain souls are at a different stage of their evolution.
It is a question of why so many would would choose to incarnate into an environment that does not appear to be suitable for their continued learning.
Why would you incarnate here? It's same for same. An educated guess here...I probably thought I could master all of my lessons too. Plus there is an eagerness I am sure to master the lesson when you're are away from your chemical body and we have to remember (lol) that we forget. The forgetting plays a huge factor I think in the spiritual evolution of a being. The lessons are most difficult as Gemini said. And it's much easier to return to spiritual apathy rather than to fight through each lesson with loving endurance.
So before we come, we want to come. We want to awaken. Everything goes toward the light! We have all the time we need to master our own awakening. Now that the harvest is here, of course those who remain asleep in 3rd density will now go elsewhere. They will want or desire to go elsewhere. Just as you would and have done; same for myself. Hopefully I understood the question. Good question! I use to wonder it myself. All the time!
RE: 2018_0203 - Spiritual Sleepers - xise - 05-02-2019
(03-03-2019, 01:12 PM)redchartreuse Wrote:(03-03-2019, 01:36 AM)xise Wrote: though on the surface fear and worry appear cloak themselves in reason and reasonability.
Just to be clear, are you saying that reasonability is always fear in disguise? Or simply that fear often disguises itself as reason?
Fear often disguises itself as reason.
Though I wouldn't use the word disguise. Reason and logic can serve any master/any distortion, though reason does rule out a few limited distortions (such as randomness or pure emotional-based thinking). However a lot of people think reasoning is the end all be all of decision making, whereas really unless you dig deep into the underlying perspectives and views you have, you're still going to be reasoning based on distortions.