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RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - βαθμιαίος - 07-13-2010
(07-13-2010, 11:10 AM)unity100 Wrote: it is rather impossible to precisely know what can be shared and what cannot, in regard to knowledge, if you are considering the work of blue ray, 5d. it may be easier when 3d, 4d is involved, however when it becomes to 5d, blue seeking, it changes.
you may share 10 units of knowledge. 8 bits of that knowledge may be irrelevant to the person, unwanted, 1 bit harmful, undesired, but 1 unit maybe vital, quite important.
so, when related to matters concerning blue ray, and blue ray learning and seekers, it becomes paramount to present all you have, and the other party becomes free to learn from whatever part of that knowledge s/he wants. it is one of the characteristics of a density and ray which is 'extremely free' in nature, as Ra puts it.
Are you talking about blue ray here in third density, or are you talking about it in fifth density?
If you're talking about third density, then I'd say that blue ray is not the only consideration in any given interaction, even one of teacher to student.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-13-2010
blue ray activity wouldnt differ in third, fourth, or any other density, if the ray is there, it is there. just like how red ray always being present in any interaction in between entities, including sexual interactions, a ray is there if it is there.
of course, what i specifically mean is seeking and learning of wisdom or communication or other blue ray matters. ie, even the 'freedom of information' kind of thing we have today in our society, internet.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - βαθμιαίος - 07-13-2010
I may be wrong, but you seem to be emphasizing blue ray above the others.
This was the quote GLB was asking about: "We can suggest an attempt to become aware of the other-self as self and thus do that action which is needed by other-self, understanding from the other-self’s intelligence and awareness. In many cases this does not involve the breaking of the distortion of free will into a distortion or fragmentation called infringement. However, it is a delicate matter to be of service, and compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness."
There may be a choice to be made between the fire-hose like sharing of information and the delicate matter of compassionate, sensitive, and empathetic service.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-13-2010
(07-13-2010, 01:15 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: I may be wrong, but you seem to be emphasizing blue ray above the others.
This was the quote GLB was asking about: "We can suggest an attempt to become aware of the other-self as self and thus do that action which is needed by other-self, understanding from the other-self’s intelligence and awareness. In many cases this does not involve the breaking of the distortion of free will into a distortion or fragmentation called infringement. However, it is a delicate matter to be of service, and compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness."
even the assessment of whether there can be an infringement, a 'learning for another' requires wisdom, also, understanding, which are traits of blue ray. moreover, there are metaphysical, paranormal considerations of blue ray, in regard to that ray being the clearing, divining, truth revealing ray.
in order to be able to understand that an infringement may happen, the entity must have enough blue ray understanding to be able to know what an infringement is, how can it happen in the given context, or, s/he/it has to have enough blue ray activity in regard to communication and subtle communication that, it can understand when it is given any insights from time/space, or its aides, higher self etc, in regard to possibility of an infringement. either way may work.
so, no, im not overemphasising blue ray - this matter is a matter related to the nature and practice of blue ray.
Quote:There may be a choice to be made between the fire-hose like sharing of information and the delicate matter of compassionate, sensitive, and empathetic service.
fire hose like sharing of information is rather the trait of 5d positive it seems. and the amount of freedom accompanied. delicate matter of compassionate, sensitive, empathetic service, would become a matter of 6d ray, since you include the concept delicate in it.
in order to be delicate, one needs to know first. only then s/he can understand the situation, and then do delicate service.
this is probably a reason why Ra says that the choice of polarity is made in 3d, but the sculpture is rough hewn, and the following densities are spent with refining that sculpture.
even the concept of 'infringement' is something pertaining to 5d, and at most late 4d in the minimum in the first place.
the 4d entity would be extremely compassionate to the point of being suicidal and being prone to sacrificing itself for others. s/he seeks to put itself in between all the dangers and those to be served, heal all wounds, prevent any pain. it doesnt even pay attention to anything like infringement, because the nature of this density is as such.
such concerns are concerns of seeking towards wisdom - what happens if i do this, will i do more harm than good if i attempt this ? what is the long term consequences of this ? what is this situation have in regard to the self will of the individual in question.
these would be asked by a seeker of wisdom. these are all questions relevant to the 'dance' of life to be learned, and they all are related to wisdom.
a 4d entity full of love, however, would hurl itself into the foray to prevent all pains, make everyone happy, without paying attention to who is who in the situation at hand, spending itself to the point of exhaustion.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - βαθμιαίος - 07-13-2010
(07-13-2010, 01:41 PM)unity100 Wrote: even the assessment of whether there can be an infringement, a 'learning for another' requires wisdom, also, understanding, which are traits of blue ray.
Maybe, but it can also be done with intuition. By the way, Ra uses understanding synonymously with fourth density ("the vibration or density of love or understanding").
(07-13-2010, 01:41 PM)unity100 Wrote: fire hose like sharing of information is rather the trait of 5d positive it seems. and the amount of freedom accompanied.
Maybe, but refraining from sharing is sometimes wise, as you point out in the addendum to your post.
(07-13-2010, 01:41 PM)unity100 Wrote: delicate matter of compassionate, sensitive, empathetic service, would become a matter of 6d ray, since you include the concept delicate in it.
It was Ra that used the term delicate, in advice given for third-density conditions.
(07-13-2010, 01:41 PM)unity100 Wrote: the 4d entity would be extremely compassionate to the point of being suicidal and being prone to sacrificing itself for others. s/he seeks to put itself in between all the dangers and those to be served, heal all wounds, prevent any pain. it doesnt even pay attention to anything like infringement, because the nature of this density is as such.
Hmm. Free will still applies in and to fourth density. Fourth-density entities may want to solve everyone's problems for them, but they will surely lose polarity if they do so. They are trying to learn wisdom: "the vibration love being that density in which those who have learned to do an activity called “loving” without significant distortion, then seek the ways of light or wisdom."
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-13-2010
(07-13-2010, 03:23 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Maybe, but it can also be done with intuition.
the mechanisms of the concept called intuition wouldnt be any different from the base concepts that make all the creation work in the physical. ra says that intelligent energy designed the octave with discrete increments of densities/rays each of which carrying the properties of a certain aspect of infinity. with this logic, it doesnt matter if it is time/space, or space/time, communication would still be relevant to blue ray, and the metaphysical properties behind it, even if for intuition.
Quote:By the way, Ra uses understanding synonymously with fourth density ("the vibration or density of love or understanding").
understanding of the other self, its emotions, its desires, pains.
understanding in the context i used, is understanding the dance of life, ie, 5d work.
Quote:It was Ra that used the term delicate, in advice given for third-density conditions.
natural - if you remember it was noted that Ra material was intended for the advanced seeker. also the fact that majority of wanderers are from 6d. those wanderers, should, as a responsibility, attempt to function with the highest consciousness they can. optimally this would be 6, and hence the relevant advice.
Quote:Hmm. Free will still applies in and to fourth density. Fourth-density entities may want to solve everyone's problems for them, but they will surely lose polarity if they do so. They are trying to learn wisdom: "the vibration love being that density in which those who have learned to do an activity called “loving” without significant distortion, then seek the ways of light or wisdom."
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=43&ss=1#29
firstly, apparently the conditions for experience and learning in 3d and 4d are not the same, as in the above link.
second, the work of 4d is not quite about wisdom - its about harmonizing with the societal complex, through acceptance and understanding of others' thoughts and emotions, ie other selves, as in the below link :
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=48&ss=1#5
interpretation of free will in your approach is not quite right - polarity would be lost for a 4d entity IN 3d incarnation, only if it was infringing on another's free will for its own benefit.
free will in the infringement sense, is a concept related to the veil and its consequences, as you can understand from the relevant cases in Ra, especially about Ra itself.
if, the 4d entity, despite being in 4d, went past the veil through 'unnatural means' and offered service to a 3d entity without its calling, that would be an infringement.
however, if the 4d entity is incarnated, or, in the case of a negative or positive entity, somehow passed the quarantine through any means, then they are free to offer their service.
especially for a 4d entity in 3d incarnation, the veil and quarantine issues are irrelevant. the entity is already incarnated through normal means. therefore, any kind of offering of extreme love and sacrifice would not be an infringement of anyone's free will. since the entity is offering its help without any condition, return, expectancy, desire to control, and in full acceptance and forgiveness of itself and the other, it is even questionable that there could be any karma.
what however, would possibly be, would be a screw up in regard to wisdom, creating consequences that somehow would need to be fixed. however, this is not an infringement.
you can call it infringement only if you look at it in the same manner i mentioned in earlier pages of this thread in my posts ; creating a spiritual momentum, entanglement, an intertwining of fates.
however since all acts create consequences and end in such results, it becomes only a matter of choosing what particular momentum/fate thread you want to choose, and which responsibility/weight to shoulder.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - βαθμιαίος - 07-13-2010
What is your point, exactly? It seems like you're driving at something in the way you contrast fourth- and fifth-density work, but I'm not clear what it is. Rather than going through your post bit by bit and quibbling here and there, I'd like to ask you to step back and sum up, if you would. Make it simple for a poor third-density incarnate trying to swim in these deep waters.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-13-2010
which point ? there were many stuff discussed in this thread. i will sum up my points all in a simple fashion :
- you cant infringe anyone's free will, if you are incarnated in 3rd density veiled planet through normal incarnation means. anything you do, is legitimate.
- if you pass the quarantine through a window, and negative in nature, you wont infringe upon free will of entities even if you use various means to communicate information through it, even though you are not in 3rd density incarnation yourself through natural means
- if you act without love in 3rd density, you may get involved in karma
- all causes have effects, and all kinds of service, decision made and information given changes things. this is not infringement. it changes fate, but its a long subject in itself.
- 4d is the density of loving and accepting others and their emotions, thoughts. it is not a density in which wisdom is learned
- 5d is the density in which wisdom is learned. understanding of the dance of existence.
- most of the wanderers on this planet at this moment are 6d entities. one of their generic tasks, unless incarnated for very specific purposes and models, would be to lighten planetary vibrations through practice of highest form of understanding they can - that would be the 6d understanding, the understanding of oneness and balance in which wisdom and love is balanced.
and so on. all are in the earlier posts.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - βαθμιαίος - 07-13-2010
I agree with many of your points but not all. Some seem to contradict quotes from Ra. I will provide them below.
(07-13-2010, 05:45 PM)unity100 Wrote: - you cant infringe anyone's free will, if you are incarnated in 3rd density veiled planet through normal incarnation means. anything you do, is legitimate.
89.44 "When the archetype is translated without regard for magical propriety into the manifested daily actions of an individual the greatest distortions may take place and great infringement upon the free will of others is possible." This is referring to third-density individuals.
68.12 "To take an entity before it is ready and offer it the scepter of magical power is to infringe in an unbalanced manner." Third density adepts could do this; it's the reason why mystery schools take great care not to give initiates more powerful tools than they are ready for.
73.14 "Infringement upon free will occurs in this circumstance only if the entity doing the working ascribes the authorship of this event to its self or its own skills." In other words, had Jesus, say, claimed authorship over his miracles he would have been infringing on free will.
(07-13-2010, 05:45 PM)unity100 Wrote: - if you pass the quarantine through a window, and negative in nature, you wont infringe upon free will of entities even if you use various means to communicate information through it, even though you are not in 3rd density incarnation yourself through natural means
Unless you're distinguishing communication from conquest, that is contradicted by this: 16.9 "In the second circumstance, a mass landing would create a loss of polarization due to the infringement upon the free will of the planet."
72.8 "Firstly, those of negative polarity do not operate with respect to free will unless it is necessary. They call themselves and will infringe whenever they feel it possible."
(07-13-2010, 05:45 PM)unity100 Wrote: - 4d is the density of loving and accepting others and their emotions, thoughts. it is not a density in which wisdom is learned
It may not be the density in which wisdom is learned, but it certainly sought: 27.13 "the vibration love being that density in which those who have learned to do an activity called “loving” without significant distortion, then seek the ways of light or wisdom."
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-13-2010
(07-13-2010, 06:35 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: "When the archetype is translated without regard for magical propriety into the manifested daily actions of an individual the greatest distortions may take place and great infringement upon the free will of others is possible." This is referring to third-density individuals.
this is a quote from book 4 apparently, and its related to magical adept work. however, the context it is in is also important. you should link the question number too.
Quote:"To take an entity before it is ready and offer it the scepter of magical power is to infringe in an unbalanced manner." Third density adepts could do this; it's the reason why mystery schools take great care not to give initiates more powerful tools than they are ready for.
this has a fine point - are those who can do this the third density adepts, or the entity/source which is in the teacher position, and gives them these information. is a third density adept, able to be able to teach other third density adepts, or, other third density entities ...
if not, and its probably not, this again would refer to any kind of source that is implementing a plan from outside the veil, like the group aided the atlanteans, and Ra contact in egypt. that means, the veil/quarantine is still a factor in the infringement.
Quote:"Infringement upon free will occurs in this circumstance only if the entity doing the working ascribes the authorship of this event to its self or its own skills." In other words, had Jesus, say, claimed authorship over his miracles he would have been infringing on free will.
again, context is needed for analysis. you should link question nos.
Quote:Unless you're distinguishing communication from conquest, that is contradicted by this: "In the second circumstance, a mass landing would create a loss of polarization due to the infringement upon the free will of the planet."
yes i am. actually this is one of the ironic points in all this free will business - it is ok if you lie to population, make believe in some god, and then manifest as the messengers of that god. landing seems to be a violation, but, what if enough people are made believe that the landing ships are 'chariots of god' and the entities landing within them are 'angels of god' ...
Quote:It may not be the density in which wisdom is learned, but it certainly sought: "the vibration love being that density in which those who have learned to do an activity called “loving” without significant distortion, then seek the ways of light or wisdom."
that is in the late stages of 4d, naturally.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - βαθμιαίος - 07-13-2010
(07-13-2010, 06:43 PM)unity100 Wrote: you should link question nos.
OK, I updated my post.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Steppingfeet - 07-13-2010
(07-13-2010, 11:05 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote:(07-12-2010, 11:09 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: As to infringing, I know that you, like me, unlike Ra, are just a bozo on this bus. I am therefore more free to accept, reject, or ignore your interpretation.
Ra is also just a bozo on the bus, or as they put it, "an humble messenger of the Law of One."
If I explain it to you, and you accept my explanation, then my actions will have caused a change in you. That's not infringement, but is a responsibility, one that I ought to consider before undertaking. I think that's the essence of the paragraph that I said reminded me of unity100: try to put yourself in the shoes of the one you're intending to serve and see if the service you are considering is appropriate.
Hey βαθμιαίος,
Well then as long as you don't claim authorship for the circumstance of my head exploding when you reveal the true meaning of that excerpt to me, then I think you need not be concerned about infringing on my free will.
(Referring to this nugget for the humor: 73.14 "Infringement upon free will occurs in this circumstance only if the entity doing the working ascribes the authorship of this event to its self or its own skills." In other words, had Jesus, say, claimed authorship over his miracles he would have been infringing on free will.)
: ) GLB
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-13-2010
(07-13-2010, 06:35 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: 89.44 "When the archetype is translated without regard for magical propriety into the manifested daily actions of an individual the greatest distortions may take place and great infringement upon the free will of others is possible." This is referring to third-density individuals.
it is easier to analyze now. and there are good results and bad results, as far as i can see.
this seems not related directly to third density individuals in that, apparently it is a warning for the adept, in regard to infringement.
it apparently requires understanding of the archetypical mind, the will (and its power) of the magician aspect, and a conscious reflection of the archetypical mind's aspects to daily actions.
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=74&ss=1#4
male and female aspects of the archetypical mind of this logos, apparently are two entries to archetypical mind.
'into the manifested daily actions of an individual' is important. that means, this translation to actions can happen without any magical ritual, technique, or contraption present. daily actions.
i think these require extensive discussion in themselves. there is an ever-pending book 4 thread that is hopefully going to be attended someday, and i expect this is a discussion pertaining to that.
however, in regard to infringements ;
http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=75&ss=1#40
Quote:75.40 Questioner: You made the statement in a previous session that the true adept lives more and more as it is. Will you explain and expand more upon that statement?
Ra: I am Ra. Each entity is the Creator. The entity, as it becomes more and more conscious of its self, gradually comes to the turning point at which it determines to seek either in service to others or in service to self. The seeker becomes the adept when it has balanced with minimal adequacy the energy centers red, orange, yellow, and blue with the addition of the green for the positive, thus moving into indigo work.
thus, an adept is an entity which has had a minimal balance and adequacy of red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and into the indigo work.
so i conclude that, for any infringement to be feasible, the entity should have minimum balance in that, it should be able to do indigo work. (which also includes calling the magical personality Ra describes as higher self, ie then it means anything magical will be related to higher chakra work).
now at that point, an entity which has opened enough such chakras in balance, would already have noticeable contact, communication, even if in a subconscious level with its unmanifested sources; higher self, guides, aides, any other entities or principles aiding it and so on. therefore while being able to do that kind of indigo work, manifestation, the entity would already be in contact with sources it can draw support from in regard to delicacies and wisdom of the actions. ie, basically, s/he should be already 'feeling' the correct course of action, and the wrong. in that regard i dont think there is much to fear from that.
on the other hand, a sufficiently balanced, and high energy keeping individual through either means (meditation or anything) would already be able to reflect not only any archetypes, but many other things in its daily actions, and even with its very being. than that also makes it an infringement to go about in high energy/vibration and concentration, and conducting grocery shopping about.
maybe we should all retreat to mountain caves if we want to do such work ...
....................
in any case this is a delicate discussion and apparently long.
Quote:68.12 "To take an entity before it is ready and offer it the scepter of magical power is to infringe in an unbalanced manner." Third density adepts could do this; it's the reason why mystery schools take great care not to give initiates more powerful tools than they are ready for.
in this bit you omitted the question and the last sentence of the answer :
Quote:It would seem to me that since I can’t imagine anything worse than this particular result it would be very advisable to seek the magical training and defense for this situation. Could Ra and would Ra instruct us in this type of magical defense?
..............
We may suggest with some asperity that the instrument never call upon Ra in any way while unprotected by the configuration which is at this time present.
therefore, this is a situation of potential infringement related to Ra.
73.14 "Infringement upon free will occurs in this circumstance only if the entity doing the working ascribes the authorship of this event to its self or its own skills." In other words, had Jesus, say, claimed authorship over his miracles he would have been infringing on free will.[/quote]
this bit's question describes itself :
Quote:73.14 Questioner: An observation of the working itself by another entity would seem to me to partially abridge free will in that a seemingly magical occurrence had taken place as the result of the working of an adept. This could be extended to any phenomenon which is other than normal or acceptable. Could you speak on this paradox that is immediately the problem of anyone doing healing?
its not something that should bother those on the positive path, it seems, because those adepts on the positive path, (unless extremely naive) wouldnt be as naive as to attribute result of a magical work to its own skills, for as to the definition of adept, it requires a sufficient blue ray balance and manifestation, which in itself carries a strong vying for finding and also communicating truth.
for the negatives, well, i dont think they would mind the infringement.
for those trying to do magic without having sufficient balance and strength in open chakras up to 6th, well, any magical manifestation is unlikely to occur in the first place. (any unbalanced, unopened 3d entity).
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-14-2010
Quote:89.44 "When the archetype is translated without regard for magical propriety into the manifested daily actions of an individual the greatest distortions may take place and great infringement upon the free will of others is possible." This is referring to third-density individuals.
are you people aware that the above has the potential to make of our very existence here as wanderers potentially infringing, even if we dont engage in any kind of magic ?
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Steppingfeet - 07-15-2010
Dear Unity100,
Quote:Unity100 wrote: you can easily think that we are very probably just making selections from a pool of already existing knowledge/understandings/feelings, than discovering things.
From the “perspective” (if that’s what it can be called) of the infinite one, perhaps there is “nothing new under the sun”, as the expression goes. From the perspective of the transient self, however, there is certainly discovery of that which was hitherto unknown.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: hiding everything in 'mystery' (despite almost everything is being already mystified sufficiently by the infinity itself) and then allowing entities to bump their heads into walls in seeking, and then when they find a door to pass, passing that door and then this being accepted as 'their free will', or their preference, is fundamentally wrong.
the best, is showing all the doors to the entity, from among which the entity will decide which door to go, with its own spiritual preference and deep inclinations.
This analogy operates on the premise that there are pre-existing choices available to the entity. That is, when an entity faces a situation, he or she can choose among a limited or unlimited number of pre-fabricated choices.
This runs contrary to my humble understanding which is that the entity creates each choice for herself. It is not that the veil limits what pre-existing choices she can see, but rather the veil limits what choices she will choose to create.
27.10 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=27&ss=1#10
In your illusion all experience springs from the Law of Free Will or the Way of Confusion. In another sense, which we are learning, the experiences are this distortion.
“The experiences are this distortion”. Ra calls the Law of Free Will the Law of Confusion. Intrinsic to the nature of the faculty of free will is confusion - to utilize free will implies (and inevitably produces) confusion about the nature of the ground of being, about infinity and the nature of the All Self.
This is why, I believe, ultimately, free will ends in surrender. Ultimately, the final choice is to abide in choiceless awareness.
Ramana Maharshi (an Indian sage of the 20th century) is, like Ra, a teacher to me. This is what some have targeted as being an expression of his highest teaching:
There is neither creation nor destruction,
Neither destiny nor freewill;
Neither path nor achievement;
This is the final truth
Quote:Unity100 wrote: basically, this is saying, 'here are your potential best choices, you can choose any of them you like. you can also start banging your head against a wall, and make a door on that wall for you to pass, from wherever you prefer'. so then, if the entity wants to bang his head into walls, even that would be his/her own preference.
Indeed. And all along, deep down within our heart there is only one choice. Not precisely to “become” the Creator – because we already are – but to lose the notion that we are not the Creator, to release the idea that we are these separate, limited, finite beings who are in a physical world, in a density, and subject to the multitude of energy currents which move hither and yon.
Here is another angle to view the situation of free will, its limitations and its potential: Right now, we are already self-realized. We always have been. But instead of realizing that we are already realized, already the Creator, we exercise "free will", or confusion. As Ra says in the opening session of the Law of One, we choose this experience as an alternative to experiencing the unity which binds all things together.
1.5 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=1&ss=1#5
Ra: In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things.
Let’s explore this thought further through an analogy.
The focus of virtually all entities on this planet is upon a movie being projected onto a screen, as in the standard movie theatre. This movie is the Movie of Creation – it contains every entity in the universe as principle characters along with all the infinite dynamics possible in the manifested universe, everything from the First Distortion onward. It is the manifest universe.
Simultaneously participating in, identified with, and watching the movie, we are fascinated with the drama, the conflict, the growth, the decay, the love stories, the heartache, the rise and the fall of various energies happening in the play of the movie. Densities, beings, polarity, evolution, mistakes, triumphs, dreams, thoughts – you name it – this movie literally has it all.
Meanwhile, the screen behind the show remains untouched by that which happens in the movie – empires rise and fall, worlds are blown up and stars are born, but the movie screen is completely unaffected. Not only that, but the screen gives the projected movie a basis of existence – the images depend on the stationary screen. And meanwhile, the movie-goers (at once watching and participating in the movie) ignore the screen.
The analogy, like all analogies, is limited. It cannot convey that the screen, somehow, learns from the movie, nor can it convey the unity between the projection and the screen, nor can it convey that the images themselves must be honored, understood, loved, balanced, and worked with to unify image and screen - the images cannot be negated through simple will power - but the analogy gets the job done.
(One can use this analogy to great effect in Ra's statements about the energy ingresses in the entity, that which moves through the "south pole" and that which is present as the "inner light" or "polaris of self".)
104.26 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=104&ss=1#26
I am Ra. We leave you in appreciation of the circumstances of the great illusion in which you now choose to play the pipe and timbrel and move in rhythm. We are also players upon a stage. The stage changes. The acts ring down. The lights come up once again. And throughout the grand illusion and the following and the following there is the undergirding majesty of the One Infinite Creator. All is well. Nothing is lost. Go forth rejoicing in the love and the light, the peace and the power of the One Infinite Creator. I am Ra. Adonai.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: a full and clear, honest manifestation of blue ray, in which the entity is sharing all s/he learned and knows with the other entity in true spirit of giving first, and then respecting the choice and preference of the entity. and if, the entity's choices are not in compliance with him/her, a parting of ways in a decent manner.
Your philosophy is congruent with my own. Entity A may avail Entity B of the choices that Entity A perceives are available for Entity B. Should Entity B decide not to accept the options shared by Entity A, then there should be no coercion or force or manipulation (as the positive polarity goes) – Entity A should release attachment and allow Entity B to be.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: it is not wrong to want another entity to make a certain choice. it is not wrong for an entity to honestly say 'i myself would like very much that you choose door x'. all the entities have a right to have preferences, biases, and wants and desires, and they have a right to have these in regard to their fellow beings, and even higher density acquaintances, contacts, aides, family, societal complex, and even intelligent infinity itself too. but, it is wrong to coerce or enforce them while teaching.
of course, negative path is excluded from this.
My previous paragraph was written before reading your words here. I do not have disagreement with your statement. I would only augment the “wrong” concept by saying that it would be “wrong” from the standpoint of the positive polarity only.
Quote:Quote:GLB previously wrote:
However, Ra did not say that a plan was put into effect which laid the groundwork for the coming of the Law of One material. You deduced that such a plan must exist simply on the basis of their being a sequence of events culminating in the Law of One material.
Unity100 responded: no no, what i said was, this plan was made to provide relief to the world inhabitants from the daily tasks, so that they would have enough time in a day to be able to take their minds off survival and tasks to be able to think about Law of One or anything in a meaningful manner.
Ahem, you don’t say…
Unity100 wrote: “ra material has been a thorough plan it seems. firstly, it was done after a wave of spiritual energy influx (probably due to the wanderers again) 1960s. secondly, apparently (as we understand from past life mentions of the ll group from what Ra says) not only ll group but other wanderers also were incarnated to facilitate this plan, and not only once too. (for preparations). ra wandered about a lot of other groups and this group met the conditions.” [From Post #19 in this thread.]
It’s possible that I could have misread this paragraph, but “ra material has been a thorough plan it seems”, reads pretty clearly that you believed the transmitting of the Ra material was accomplished only after previously coordinated action for the purpose of preparing the way.
Which could be true, actually. My only point was that the progression of events does not prove a plan, it only proves evolution from one thing to the next. But you later satisfactorily and clearly address this point directly in the following two paragraphs:
Quote:Unity100 wrote: this can be a topic in itself, but i very much suspect that the 1960s and the changing consciousness, the 'hippie revolution' and whatnot, were related to this.
of course, it is highly possible that they were not made in order to pave the way directly to ll group's channeling with Ra, they were done as a general plan in preparation with the end of the cycle, however, it is undeniable that it is a major factor that paved the way for Ra contact. and im not talking about the seeking ll group have made in 1960s and 1960s effects on them - im approaching it from the angle that because in 1960s millions of entities have created a calling, created higher vibrations and brought in higher energies ( at the cost of their own lives sometimes, due to usage of drugs that opened various higher brain functions and accompanying consciousness), and in general lightened planetary vibrations so that the Ra contact could become possible too, in addition to all kinds of contacts and spiritual work.
Well put, Unity100. Sometimes when I think of what conditions were like in Venus’ third density, I think of hippies. Except I imagine them less recreational-drug-oriented and more philosophically - perhaps even magically - oriented.
I think hanging on the side of Venus millions of years ago was a sign that read, “If Venus is a rockin, don’t come a knockin.” If ya know what I mean. (Nudge nudge.)
In other words, lots of “free love” happening there.
Quote:Quote:GLB previously wrote: About the veil separating the conscious from the subconscious mind, I would say that the veil creates those divisions. Without the veil, there is no conscious and subconscious, there is just mind.
Unity 100 responded: http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=79&sc=1&ss=1#10
Quote:79.10 Questioner: Then from that statement I assume that the Logos first devised the tool of separating the unconscious from the conscious during what we call physical incarnations to achieve its objective? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. Yes.
it seems, conscious and subconscious existed before the veil. in order to be able to separate two things, there should exist two divisible concepts first.
if your approach to this different, you should share your findings in detail, and put forth the reasoning. it may be vital.
Thanks for providing this quote. I read this quote and the one preceding it (79.9) differently than you are reading. My interpretation is this:
Don is asking in 79.9 if the veil was the primary tool for extending free will to the sub-sub-logoi. (Us, basically.)
Ra replies, “yes”, but that the veil is the “first tool”.
Don then asks in 79.10 if the Logos dreamt up the idea of separating the mind into two portions in order to achieve its objective, that is, in order to extend free will to more of the creation.
Ra says, “yes”.
I ran a key word search on “subconscious” and didn’t find anything helpful. A search for “unconscious” yielded ambiguous results that, frankly, I think can be read either way. This one however seems to indicate that the veil created the subconscious (or unconscious) mind.
83.18 [url]http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=83&ss=1#18purl]
Questioner: What was the mechanism of the very first veiling process? I don’t know if you can answer that. Would you try to answer that?
Ra: I am Ra. The mechanism of the veiling between the conscious and unconscious portions of the mind was a declaration that the mind was complex. This, in turn, caused the body and the spirit to become complex.
And this one:
86.6 http://lawofone.info/results.php?session_id=86&ss=1#6
Ra: Your language is not overstrewn with non-emotional terms for the functional qualities of what is now termed unconscious mind.
The “what is now termed” phrase is provocative. Prior to the veil, maybe there was a deeper and a less deep mind, but there was no division between. Perhaps it was the difference between the lower trunk and the upper trunk of a tree. There is no boundary between.
It just doesn’t make sense to me that there could be a portion of the mind less conscious prior to the veil, something which would be called sub or unconscious. All the content of the mind was available to the “conscious” mind before the veil. The mind was an indivisible unity as far as I understand these things.
Only when a partition is introduced does the mind become complex.
Btw, have you ever considered the human diaphragm – situated between the third and the fourth chakras – as a physical analog for the veil?
Quote:Quote:GLB previously wrote:
I get what you’re saying, you are saying that all or most entities on planet Earth wanted to achieve what the wanderers achieved, but only the wanderers had access to subconscious information so only the wanderers achieved their goals. It’s a keen observation, but one I'm not sure is entirely true.
Unity100 replied: not quite, what i was saying was that, due to they actually being the beings of a higher density and evolution, they had more means to be able to go past the veil, penetrate their subconscious and contact any kind of spiritual, or mental source (roots of mind, in regard to mental). veil also makes contact with any kind of disincarnate or higher density entity harder.
wanderers, either due to the spirit part of their complex, or any other combination of mind/spirit factors, have greater potential and power to go past the veil.
Yes, yes, I understood you to have said that wanderers have greater veil-piercing ability, greater capacity to tap into the subconscious or spirit complex. The basic supporting reason you provided for your theory was this:
Quote:had it been possible for 3d entities to be able to penetrate the veil in that manner, and accomplish those tasks through incarnational programming, no wanderer would be required to do those tasks.
You are saying that the wanderers accomplished what the natives could not. There is an assumption in there that both groups wanted the same thing. You say wanderers succeeded, natives did not. In your thinking, had the third-density entities been able to penetrate the veil, they could have done for themselves what the wanderers did. But they couldn’t, you say, so the wanderers stepped in.
You are assuming common purpose and common objective between the two groups. I am saying that it is not necessarily so. Perhaps what the wanderers accomplished was not a result of piercing the veil in ways that the natives could not, but rather was a result of succeeding in their own, different mission.
See what I am saying?
I’ll illustrate my point. In a closed room, I give five pages of text to two people: Person A and B. I ask Person A to memorize all five pages. I ask Person B to memorize nothing. You, Unity100, are unaware of what I have asked these two people to do.
When these two emerge from the closed room, Person A recites all five pages from memory. Person B does not recite any pages.
You, Unity100, assume that Person A has greater memory because they were able to recite all five pages.
The truth of the matter is, they had different assignments.
Now, I could run that experiment the other way, asking both persons to memorize all five pages. When they emerged from the closed room, Person A would recite all five pages and maybe Person B recites only two pages.
You, Unity100, would then conclude that Person A had the better memory recall. In this case, you would be correct because they were both tasked with the same mission.
Please give me a high-five for that, because I think I just rocked.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: you incarnate a 3d entity. the entity is supposed to do indigo ray activity, and invent. and create. or, connect with infinite intelligence in an unmanifested fashion, and get muses and inspiration.
but it is an 3d entity. it doesnt have sufficient experience in that area. even if you take an entity which had taken initiation training through pyramids in atlantean era or else, the entity would still not be able to accomplish the indigo ray activity except in certain conditions, circumstances. (ie in a pyramid, or engaging in excesses like the negative initiates/adepts like rasputin, and so on). they certainly wouldnt be able to just sit in front of a cup of coffee in a 19th century middle class home and have indigo ray activity as if it was the most normal daily event in the world.
I love your examples, especially the one you used earlier in the thread of the individual espousing the Ra Material in the middle of a village. You posed the question (paraphrased), “And what are you doing there in the middle of that village?” You’ve got a funny bone in you.
All humor aside, the 18th and 19th century wanderer may have been doing indigo-ray work, but I’m not sure that simply fulfilling ones pre-incarnational programming necessarily means working through indigo.
As I understand the nature and mechanism of this programming, it is like an invisible hand leading the incarnate entity to people and circumstances and providing inspiration in order that the entity might fulfill its self-chosen mission. When the entity meets face-to-face with another with whom he is to do work, that stirring impulse within that says, “follow this lead” is not, to my knowledge, doing conscious indigo ray work. It’s trusting and following the promptings from within the self.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: humans may or may not have wanted the same thing. it is hard to know at this point.
That’s odd that you say that here, considering the foundation of your argument for the wanderer’s greater ability to pierce the veil rests upon the assumption that both groups did want the same thing.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: what we can speculate is that, however, ra had said that the preference of an unpolarized 3d entity would be for more comfort. so, if we take the earth entities as mostly unpolarized at that given point in time, it is highly probable that they would have liked to become free of daily shackles of life they were so heavily coerced into, by the existing societal system then.
This is the direction of my thinking as well. I believe that the waves of wanderers incarnated, yes, for the harvest, but also to answer a deep yearning within the human breast for greater freedom and opportunity.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: the latter paragraph of above block of yours is important. i personally think, it is more the harvester accord than the earth request. it is possible for an earth request for freedom from shackles to exist. and, it is possible for harvesters to evaluate this, and take a plan to saturn, and then come down with that plan.
That sounds most reasonable to me. Confederation acknowledges yearning/request and formulates a creative way to deliver that which is being asked for.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: at that point, i would like to refer you to my post about guardians, guardianship, yahweh, martians and the adventures of them on earth :
http://bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=68&pid=16473#pid16473
Thank you for directing me to that post. Your thoughts are well received on my end. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the continuation of biases and identity distortions through the system of densities. It is easy to envision higher-density entities as living in perfect balance, with perfect knowledge, perfect relationships, and blissful existence. Apparently, there is still illusory material to be understood, accepted, and balanced in the higher densities – and there is continual discovery of the unknown. Though of course it must be a cakewalk from the perspective of third-density. (Ra even mentioned something what sounds to me like “virtual reality” devices to aid with polarization in fourth or fifth density.)
I’ve got to stop here to say that you are more funny than you know. This line, for instance. Classic.
“i dont know under which circumstances yahweh evolved, but, however, they seem to have a very badly repeating pattern.”
So back to Confederation involvement/interference with this planet. Actually, I am going to copy and paste this section into a separate post that I will add onto the thread that you directed me to above. Cool with you? Glad you agree.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: will, is the intent, desire for something.
faith, is the acceptance that …
Great thoughts here, Unity100, and, as you say, it is a much larger topic. Perhaps on another day I will dive into this one with you and whoever else may be interested. Time and energy I find are limited, unfortunately, so I must forego the pleasure of such a discussion.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: there are various stuff, i am striving heavily towards, with will though.
As am I, fellow seeker.
Quote:Unity100 wrote: it is wrong to go into some pursuit which is cleanly said to be intended for seekers of higher passion, and then not to exhibit or employ such a passion. and sometimes, it is dangerous too. especially in matters of spirituality.
I understand what you are stating here, and I assure you that I am not trying to be challenging for the sake of being challenging, but I would like to know if there are any specific sections within the Law of One material that gave you this impression? Also, would you define the “pursuit which is cleanly said to be intended for seekers of higher passion”, please? Do you mean the higher work of the adept to which Ra refers at various points? Or do you mean Law of One material study in general?
Quote:Unity100 wrote: this shows that, most technical, fascinating, but seemingly transient material, when combined, can lead to quite important understandings and horizons in regard to the nature of intelligent infinity.
Whereas I tend to gloss over information regarding Yahweh’s genetic experiments, you seem to give weight and intense consideration to such data. Personally, I do not feel that information of that nature helps me know who I am any more deeply, or helps engender self-acceptance, or helps me transcend the personality shell into my (our) greater identity.
To me, such information stays within the realm of creation. Though principles of evolution may be able to be derived from this information, by and large I consider it to belong to an illusory dance. It’s almost on the level of a soap opera – who did what to whom and why, find out next week!
To use my analogy of the movie, such information belongs to the images projected onto the movie screen. Meanwhile, the screen itself, the infinite one, remains unchanged, present, real, and permanent.
I do not however disparage your study. On the contrary, I applaud how thoroughly you have considered this information and how well you have weaved it into a worldview tapestry of your own making. You bring fresh (if controversial) insight and novel theories to Law of One discussion.
When reading your words I wonder at times how you keep missing the heart of the Law of One, but I acknowledge that you have synthesized and integrated a great deal of the outer information available within the Ra Material with your non-Ra Material knowledge base into a perspective which is truly all your own. (This is a compliment.)
I disagree with you here and there but I respect the process by which you've reached your conclusions. Though I (as I perceive myself) am no enlightened master, I do believe that many of your conclusions will be transformed when you discover and experience the Law of One within yourself - that is, when you find that all is already perfect and there is only peace and oneness. Furthermore, when this happens, I believe that you will give less weight to much of the information that currently possesses your thinking mind. Then again, I am just a bozo here...
KYAYBC,
GLB
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 01:33 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: This analogy operates on the premise that there are pre-existing choices available to the entity. That is, when an entity faces a situation, he or she can choose among a limited or unlimited number of pre-fabricated choices.
This runs contrary to my humble understanding which is that the entity creates each choice for herself. It is not that the veil limits what pre-existing choices she can see, but rather the veil limits what choices she will choose to create.
unfortunately this seems to be as such, pre-existing choices existing to entities.
because everything that exists has to affect any other thing that exists, even if not looked from the perspective of a 7d totality. because everything that exists does that, we are always under the influence of infinite numbers of factors, ranging from the gravity of the planet, its magnetic field, to our spouse or our neighbor. add to this the fact that any existing entity also lives as a subset of a certain grouping of mind (societal mind, or greater mind groupings) and inherits various biases and thought patterns, the situation even grows more interactive. moreover, there are energy concerns. there are innumerable fluxes of energy flowing everywhere, innumerable interactions and patterns of energy.
any action/choice that an entity is going to take, has to be feasible under these conditions.
for example, you cant just become a sun in the next second, whereas you were a 3d entity a second before. theoretically it is possible, however, it is possible only in an universe that has the suitable conditions or flows up to that point.
or, in a less extreme example, you cant just become emperor of the world in a negative empire over a day, while living in a world which has democracies the day before.
that is, even leaving out the fact that all kinds of feelings, ideas, even energy format, model of entity is under innumerable effects, and these eventually make the entity inclined or suitable to various choices, and not suitable to others. the entity would even be wanting to make the choice it is going to make, due to the culmination of all these, in addition to what flows from within itself in the first place. that is, of course, leaving out the fact that any entity's energy flows, model, biases already have shaped due to its development, place in the dance up till this point.
so, joe will be inclined, 'wanting' to marry jane over elaine, due to culmination of all of these.
he can choose to marry elaine instead of jane. but, for that, he will need to contrast the natural flow of life up till this point and on. he will have to endure the energy flows, choices, the different format of the flow of the river with that choice.
any choice that is not compliant with the flow of the river of existence in these parts, will be harder to make, in proportion to its incompatibility.
so it is like a flow of string-like colored waters, upwards, this business is, in an analogy.
Quote:“The experiences are this distortion”. Ra calls the Law of Free Will the Law of Confusion. Intrinsic to the nature of the faculty of free will is confusion - to utilize free will implies (and inevitably produces) confusion about the nature of the ground of being, about infinity and the nature of the All Self.
This is why, I believe, ultimately, free will ends in surrender. Ultimately, the final choice is to abide in choiceless awareness.
to be honest, the law of confusion, and the law of free will (in the sense this logos and 7 other stars are trying to implement probably, because they are in the same confederation), all hinge on the veil, and heavy veil.
however the irony is that, in this supposed free situation behind the veil, there isnt any free will as intended, just as i have discussed before ; the entity is cut from its own higher self, planetary, galactic, etheric influences, but, this time, its free will is limited by the 3d entities' influence it inhabits the same veiled density, regardless of those entities' total influences compatible with him/her, or not. it is basically taking the power to influence an entity's being and choices from entire creation/existence, and giving it to only the entities dwelling in its own 3d density. a much, much, narrower choice subset.
Quote:There is neither creation nor destruction,
Neither destiny nor freewill;
Neither path nor achievement;
This is the final truth
valid only at the point of infinity, even above the point where infinite intelligence (aka creator) exists. nothingness and everythingness. stillness.
Quote:Indeed. And all along, deep down within our heart there is only one choice. Not precisely to “become” the Creator – because we already are – but to lose the notion that we are not the Creator, to release the idea that we are these separate, limited, finite beings who are in a physical world, in a density, and subject to the multitude of energy currents which move hither and yon.
my approach was more specific than this. i was talking about the choices an entity could make in its life at any given point.
Quote:Here is another angle to view the situation of free will, its limitations and its potential: Right now, we are already self-realized. We always have been. But instead of realizing that we are already realized, already the Creator, we exercise "free will", or confusion. As Ra says in the opening session of the Law of One, we choose this experience as an alternative to experiencing the unity which binds all things together.
again, only valid at the point of infinity.
Quote:The focus of virtually all entities on this planet is upon a movie being projected onto a screen, as in the standard movie theatre. This movie is the Movie of Creation – it contains every entity in the universe as principle characters along with all the infinite dynamics possible in the manifested universe, everything from the First Distortion onward. It is the manifest universe. ...........
this analogy is in the similar position ; it is only valid at the point of infinity, from the point of infinity. from infinity's perspective, nothing is happening. yet, nothing is infinity, until they actually become infinity. infinite intelligence is exploring the concept of being multiples. anything that is not infinity, therefore, is finite, is multiple. it doesnt matter if there is actually nothing called 'finite'. in the form it can exist, it exists, and it is called finite. anything that is not the infinity, is finite. and will not be infinity again, until they become infinity. they becoming infinity, merging with it in a 'future' point in time, however that may be, does not make them infinite. or their 'real selves' infinite. it is a referral to a future time point, and has reality only at that future time point. or state. in any state that is not that particular state, the entity will remain finite.
Quote:Ahem, you don’t say…
Unity100 wrote: “ra material has been a thorough plan it seems. firstly, it was done after a wave of spiritual energy influx (probably due to the wanderers again) 1960s. secondly, apparently (as we understand from past life mentions of the ll group from what Ra says) not only ll group but other wanderers also were incarnated to facilitate this plan, and not only once too. (for preparations). ra wandered about a lot of other groups and this group met the conditions.” [From Post #19 in this thread.]
It’s possible that I could have misread this paragraph, but “ra material has been a thorough plan it seems”, reads pretty clearly that you believed the transmitting of the Ra material was accomplished only after previously coordinated action for the purpose of preparing the way.
you havent misread, but you mistook the concept.
there are two level of plans ;
first, the potential wanderer wave of the 60s, for whatever aim it was done.
second, there is the thorough, long ongoing plan about Ra material it seems; we know that the ll group have had previous incarnations, in preparation to this incarnation and this work, through book v. we also know that Ra says they have gone through various groups, for possible contact facilitation. now, if, ll group of three was preparing for such a work for various incarnations, it is possible that there were more groups doing the same.
so, there are two (and actually probably many more) sizes and intents of plan ongoing probably, supporting and getting traction from each other.
Quote:Well put, Unity100. Sometimes when I think of what conditions were like in Venus’ third density, I think of hippies. Except I imagine them less recreational-drug-oriented and more philosophically - perhaps even magically - oriented.
I think hanging on the side of Venus millions of years ago was a sign that read, “If Venus is a rockin, don’t come a knockin.” If ya know what I mean. (Nudge nudge.)
curious angle really. if we remember that majority of 6d wanderers were from Ra, as told by Ra in 1980s, and reflect on hippie thing, it gives a parallel with Ra's experience and what they told us so far.
Quote:I ran a key word search on “subconscious” and didn’t find anything helpful. A search for “unconscious” yielded ambiguous results that, frankly, I think can be read either way. This one however seems to indicate that the veil created the subconscious (or unconscious) mind.
still doesnt differ much - for any grouping of mind subsets to be possible due to effect of the veil, there has to be various properties that the veil will cause to separate. so, when veil comes, conscious properties stay in conscious part, subconscious parts stay behind the veil. the veil affects different property-holding parts of the mind differently in this case, causing the separation.
Quote:It just doesn’t make sense to me that there could be a portion of the mind less conscious prior to the veil, something which would be called sub or unconscious. All the content of the mind was available to the “conscious” mind before the veil. The mind was an indivisible unity as far as I understand these things.
it can be also a issue of potentiation/activity. the more active part of mind is conscious, the less active, potential parts of the mind, is subconscious. before the veil, more active elements within the mind would manifest more, whereas less active elements would manifest less, despite being readily reachable.
Quote:By the way, have you ever considered the human diaphragm – situated between the third and the fourth chakras – as a physical analog for the veil?
maybe. or maybe not. may be, in the sense that 3d is more rigid, in multiple-existence format, (more than 1 entity being present concept is emphasized) and in 4d due to more empathy, the differentiation becomes blurry, and societal memory complexes can be created. in that sense, it seems so.
Quote:Yes, yes, I understood you to have said that wanderers have greater veil-piercing ability, greater capacity to tap into the subconscious or spirit complex. The basic supporting reason you provided for your theory was this:
Quote:had it been possible for 3d entities to be able to penetrate the veil in that manner, and accomplish those tasks through incarnational programming, no wanderer would be required to do those tasks.
You are saying that the wanderers accomplished what the natives could not. There is an assumption in there that both groups wanted the same thing. You say wanderers succeeded, natives did not. In your thinking, had the third-density entities been able to penetrate the veil, they could have done for themselves what the wanderers did. But they couldn’t, you say, so the wanderers stepped in.
You are assuming common purpose and common objective between the two groups. I am saying that it is not necessarily so. Perhaps what the wanderers accomplished was not a result of piercing the veil in ways that the natives could not, but rather was a result of succeeding in their own, different mission.
See what I am saying?
.................
Please give me a high-five for that, because I think I just rocked.
i see what you are saying, however, purpose is a different discussion and facet of this issue.
if we say the purpose was not 3d entities', but, the local governing principles', or logoses', then it means that the logos has fulfilled that purpose through the 6d wanderers. if 3d was an alternative, logos or the governing principles, guardians would prefer that, because it would be more compliant and natural in regard to this locale's understanding. (veil quarantines free will and such).
if we say the purpose of the 3d entities was also the accomplishment of this, it again means that 6d wanderers were needed to fulfill this, because, 3d entities were not able to do it themselves.
actually this discussion is a bit unnecessary, when approached from technical reasons ;
an entity which have stayed in a nonveiled state longer, would have more experience, stronger feeling of how the merging of conscious and subconscious would feel. ie, it would have greater acclimatization, greater time, in a state of nonveiled existence. there would be more links in between conscious parts of the mind and unconscious, and the experiences or feelings that link these.
a 3d entity however, would have just realized that it is itself a separate entity, and other separate entities exist, and because it is just out of 2d, it wont have such experiences or feelings associated in its mind, be it conscious, be it conscious part, with a nonveiled situation.
it is highly possible that the entity would very shortly go into a veiled state after becoming 3d, in places that employ the veil. so it is even highly possible that the entity would 'understand' and know 3d as the veiled situation, it will know the meaning of being in there, is as veiled.
Quote:I love your examples, especially the one you used earlier in the thread of the individual espousing the Ra Material in the middle of a village. You posed the question (paraphrased), “And what are you doing there in the middle of that village?” You’ve got a funny bone in you.
you have no idea ...
Quote:All humor aside, the 18th and 19th century wanderer may have been doing indigo-ray work, but I’m not sure that simply fulfilling ones pre-incarnational programming necessarily means working through indigo.
As I understand the nature and mechanism of this programming, it is like an invisible hand leading the incarnate entity to people and circumstances and providing inspiration in order that the entity might fulfill its self-chosen mission. When the entity meets face-to-face with another with whom he is to do work, that stirring impulse within that says, “follow this lead” is not, to my knowledge, doing conscious indigo ray work. It’s trusting and following the promptings from within the self.
continued inventive scientific activity would require consistent employment of indigo. in the manner you describe above, probably any 3d entity can experience indigo ray influence for an instant. but, continual invention, creative work, is not an instantaneous matter. you need to express, manifest the muse, once you get the muse.
Quote:That sounds most reasonable to me. Confederation acknowledges yearning/request and formulates a creative way to deliver that which is being asked for.
however it also may be a technical necessity to implement. imagine a world/society in which conditions for evolution are hampered and stopped. entities continue cycles doing nothing, not evolving. moving with conditioned intellectual biases rather than making choices with their mind according to their desires, yearnings, feelings. 3d entities, always trying to survive, trying to exist like an early 2d entity, without having the means to actually engage in 3d activity.
such a situation goes beyond the concerns of free will. it is a mishap that needs to be fixed.
Quote:Though of course it must be a cakewalk from the perspective of third-density.
maybe harder. since, the consciousness, and spiritual mass of the entity(ies) would have grown much larger, and hence the results of their earlier choices, actions, would have grown much bigger up till that point.
Quote:I understand what you are stating here, and I assure you that I am not trying to be challenging for the sake of being challenging, but I would like to know if there are any specific sections within the Law of One material that gave you this impression? Also, would you define the “pursuit which is cleanly said to be intended for seekers of higher passion”, please? Do you mean the higher work of the adept to which Ra refers at various points? Or do you mean Law of One material study in general?
anything ?
imagine going into a lucid dream while sleeping, and seeing atlantis after reading passages about atlantis at night, and seeing sons of belial, and sons of one in various settings. with the accompanying feelings ... or, reading the psychic attack parts, and then subconsciously getting hooked, and drawing such an influence/attack on yourself.
Quote:Whereas I tend to gloss over information regarding Yahweh’s genetic experiments, you seem to give weight and intense consideration to such data. Personally, I do not feel that information of that nature helps me know who I am any more deeply, or helps engender self-acceptance, or helps me transcend the personality shell into my (our) greater identity.
To me, such information stays within the realm of creation. Though principles of evolution may be able to be derived from this information, by and large I consider it to belong to an illusory dance. It’s almost on the level of a soap opera – who did what to whom and why, find out next week!
To use my analogy of the movie, such information belongs to the images projected onto the movie screen. Meanwhile, the screen itself, the infinite one, remains unchanged, present, real, and permanent.
I do not however disparage your study. On the contrary, I applaud how thoroughly you have considered this information and how well you have weaved it into a worldview tapestry of your own making. You bring fresh (if controversial) insight and novel theories to Law of One discussion.
When reading your words I wonder at times how you keep missing the heart of the Law of One, but I acknowledge that you have synthesized and integrated a great deal of the outer information available within the Ra Material with your non-Ra Material knowledge base into a perspective which is truly all your own. (This is a compliment.)
what is existence ? what are you ? you are not infinity, according to the logic that was in above blocks in this topic. then what are you ?
if we take what we are told, it means you are a finite entity, a subset of infinity, learning the manyness, and through that learning, yourself, as part of infinite intelligence.
with that, you are living various things, experiencing various things, and therefore learning with your mind, and evolving. that goes for your space/time part, and your time/space, unmanifested part. they are both parts of the existing 'illusion', which illusion is actually the reality as the reality can ever possibly be.
you are striving to learn yourself, and you are going towards infinity. but, doesnt that mean that, after a certain point, you will need to learn THE infinity, because, you are going towards it, and increasingly becoming infinity ?
it does. its actually more than that, because the rules and situations inside your own microcosm is not different from the outer macrocosm, they both have the same underlying basic principles. your outer greater identity, will eventually identify with infinity. therefore, in any given point, you will need to learn more things about what you considered as 'outer' before, because, those outer things, are becoming part of your own identity too, as your spiritual mass increasingly goes toward infinity as the densities go by.
but even much more simpler than that, there are two things :
first, catalyst is catalyst. one can take lessons from any catalyst, if s/he is sensitive enough, and pays enough attention, and uses his/her mind.
what yahweh had done is probably (and it seems so) an unhealthy attachment to the 2d-3d entities they were guarding over during a certain period of their existence. and they have done various lapses of judgment in regard to wisdom while dealing with those entities, just like overcompassionate parents. ironically, the entities they seem to be having this compassion for, seem to have strong orange activity (my way or the high way), possessiveness, assertiveness, not too much different from spoiled kids that are possessing their extremely loving but unwise parents. and just like how overly spoiled, tolerated kids can annoy neighbors, interfere with their lives, and even sometimes wreck neighborhoods, these entities are also distorting this experience of 7 billion souls, approx 5 bil and more not from their own planet, in this earth experience.
in everything there is a lesson, and even in a planet wrecking incident there is a lesson. BUT, the first lesson there in this boondogle that is to be learned, would be not to raise overspoiled kids, and then allow them to wreck the neighborhood.
when you look at it this way, it doesnt seem so far fetched, and so far out of one's own house, does it ? the only difference here is, this example shows us such lack of wisdom, overcompassion and possession can happen in stellar levels, much further in scale than being in only family-wide levels. the person who wakes up to that fact would immediately conclude that, such lack of wisdom could happen even in galactic levels, given the necessary circumstances.
second, this is not a lesson that is specific to these circumstances. it can happen anywhere, anyplace. any entity reading these lines today, or not reading them, may be going to be a part of a society, or principle that is overseeing/supporting some evolution or some mechanic of universe somewhere, with its responsibility. this is even more so important for wanderers.
third, and maybe least, many entities are trying to do service on this planet. wanderers foremost. knowing, understanding the patterns of thought and biases, their causes would be a much more efficient way to do any service, since most of the patterns that are affecting this planet seems to be stemming from this particular historical issue.
Quote:I disagree with you here and there but I respect the process by which you've reached your conclusions. Though I (as I perceive myself) am no enlightened master, I do believe that many of your conclusions will be transformed when you discover and experience the Law of One within yourself - that is, when you find that all is already perfect and there is only peace and oneness. Furthermore, when this happens, I believe that you will give less weight to much of the information that currently possesses your thinking mind. Then again, I am just a bozo here...
again, all is not perfect until you reach infinity. infinity isnt even perfect, because the term 'perfect' has no meaning there. there is only stillness, precise and exact balance.
moreover, manifestation of existence (even the existence of universe stays way belong this level, as a subset of it) doesnt happen with just thinking and saying 'we are one and perfect'. planets need to turn, souls need to be harvested, fates need to be planned, infinite amounts of activities need to be done and manifested for even that nonexistent perfectness to happen. and those who do not know, cannot do it.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Monica - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 02:42 PM)unity100 Wrote: again, all is not perfect until you reach infinity. infinity isnt even perfect, because the term 'perfect' has no meaning there. there is only stillness, precise and exact balance.
moreover, manifestation of existence (even the existence of universe stays way belong this level, as a subset of it) doesnt happen with just thinking and saying 'we are one and perfect'. planets need to turn, souls need to be harvested, fates need to be planned, infinite amounts of activities need to be done and manifested for even that nonexistent perfectness to happen. and those who do not know, cannot do it.
It's a source of comfort and solace to think that all is perfect. It helps us to forgive ourselves for our mistakes, when we know that good will eventually result from said mistakes.
But I agree with you that it's not perfect, because we are in the process of unfolding and manifesting, and as long as that process is still going on, how can there be perfection?
Unless...it's a perfect process of unfolding/evolving.
So how do we define perfection?
Does perfection mean that it's already complete, no more changes, no more evolving?
If that's the definition, then there will never be perfection, for there will always be new octaves of Creation.
Does perfection mean efficiency?
If that's the definition, then I think we can all agree, from Ra's admitting of mistakes made by higher density beings, that the evolving of this planet has been far from efficient...There have been mistakes...and we are all still reaping the results of those mistakes and trying to do the best we can to facilitate a Harvest, with our planet intact and the least amount of suffering. But I don't think I'd call it perfect. How can it be perfect when there is still so much pain, ie. inefficient use of catalyst? Where there is room for improvement, it can't already be perfect, for how do you improve on perfection? Can we agree that the evolving of this planet could use some improvement?
So I think of the saying, "All is perfect" more as a platitude, for the sake of comfort, than an actuality.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-15-2010
i agree 'all is perfect' is more a statement for comfort than actuality. it could immediately invoke the following question ; 'why are you here, if everything is perfect, and complete'.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Monica - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 01:33 AM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: When reading your words I wonder at times how you keep missing the heart of the Law of One
Gary, what would you said is the 'heart of the Law of One?'
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Richard - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 04:07 PM)unity100 Wrote: i agree 'all is perfect' is more a statement for comfort than actuality. it could immediately invoke the following question ; 'why are you here, if everything is perfect, and complete'.
The question wasn't addressed to me...but perhaps..everything is as perfect as it can be? All things considered. None of us can a claim a perfect life. However lofty our aspirations are.
There is ALWAYS going to be something tipping our applecart. Part of being human, I guess.
Richard
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 05:04 PM)Richard Wrote: The question wasn't addressed to me...but perhaps..everything is as perfect as it can be? All things considered. None of us can a claim a perfect life. However lofty our aspirations are.
There is ALWAYS going to be something tipping our applecart. Part of being human, I guess.
Richard
if everything was as perfect as it could be, there would be no reason, means or room for progress. if, there is progress to be made, and there is, that means everything is not perfect.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Monica - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 05:10 PM)unity100 Wrote: if everything was as perfect as it could be, there would be no reason, means or room for progress. if, there is progress to be made, and there is, that means everything is not perfect.
Agreed. The only way something can be deemed perfect is if a clear definition of the objective is given. If the situation meets the objective precisely, then it could be said to be perfect.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Namaste - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 05:10 PM)unity100 Wrote: if everything was as perfect as it could be, there would be no reason, means or room for progress. if, there is progress to be made, and there is, that means everything is not perfect.
That depends on the subjective definition of perfection. Our humble messenger states...
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitation of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator.
One of the primal distortions of the Law of One is that of healing. Healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the Law of One; that is, that there is no disharmony, no imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect. Thus, the intelligent infinity within this mind/body/spirit complex re-forms the illusion of body, mind, or spirit to a form congruent with the Law of One. The healer acts as energizer or catalyst for this completely individual process.
This implies it is perfect as it is, perfectly imperfect. Perfect, to a rational mind, means it meets certain criteria, as Monica mentioned above. This is not the case with existence, as all is equal, all is perfect already.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 06:16 PM)Namaste Wrote:Quote:Ra: I am Ra. The Law of One, though beyond the limitation of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator.
One of the primal distortions of the Law of One is that of healing. Healing occurs when a mind/body/spirit complex realizes, deep within itself, the Law of One; that is, that there is no disharmony, no imperfection; that all is complete and whole and perfect. Thus, the intelligent infinity within this mind/body/spirit complex re-forms the illusion of body, mind, or spirit to a form congruent with the Law of One. The healer acts as energizer or catalyst for this completely individual process.
This implies it is perfect as it is, perfectly imperfect. Perfect, to a rational mind, means it meets certain criteria, as Monica mentioned above. This is not the case with existence, as all is equal, all is perfect already.
are you aware that, even what Ra says here, passes only valid from the viewpoint of infinity itself only ?
and that, if had everything been perfect in any point below infinity, there would be no need to do anything, yet, ra also learns and strives towards gateway density, in their own words ?
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Monica - 07-15-2010
(07-15-2010, 08:02 PM)unity100 Wrote: are you aware that, even what Ra says here, passes only valid from the viewpoint of infinity itself only ?
and that, if had everything been perfect in any point below infinity, there would be no need to do anything, yet, ra also learns and strives towards gateway density, in their own words ?
Yes. Perspective is everything.
It is the same with the concept of predestiny. Those who believe in fate say, "It doesn't matter what I do...God already has it all figured out..." and yet, even if this is true, it does matter to that person, since s/he hasn't lived that destiny yet. Therefore, from the perspective of the person, there is no predestiny, even if it is true from the perspective of the Creator.
Likewise, all may indeed be perfect from the perspective of Infinity, but not from our perspectives.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Namaste - 07-16-2010
If you re-read my post from a perspective of contemplation, rather than reaction, you may notice I was stating the same thing.
Namaste Wrote:That depends on the subjective definition of perfection
I then went on to quote, and explain the viewpoint from Ra's perspective.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Richard - 07-16-2010
You folks are becoming far too literal. Its all well and good for Ra to speak like this. There are translational errors inherent in their attempts to explain the use of these principles. But there is no reason for humans to adopt and/or copy this style of absolute statement without the use of nuance.
Its not a black and white world. There are grey areas of interpretation. Its not…either things are “perfect” or things are “not perfect”….things can be almost perfect. Or insert the word “good”….things can be okay…there is not the absolute of good / not good.
We are human…Ra is not….its okay for humans to indulge in the use of nuance. We know what it means.
Richard
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - Phoenix - 07-16-2010
(07-13-2010, 09:11 PM)unity100 Wrote: in any case this is a delicate discussion and apparently long.
Quote:68.12 "To take an entity before it is ready and offer it the scepter of magical power is to infringe in an unbalanced manner." Third density adepts could do this; it's the reason why mystery schools take great care not to give initiates more powerful tools than they are ready for.
in this bit you omitted the question and the last sentence of the answer :
Quote:It would seem to me that since I can’t imagine anything worse than this particular result it would be very advisable to seek the magical training and defense for this situation. Could Ra and would Ra instruct us in this type of magical defense?
..............
We may suggest with some asperity that the instrument never call upon Ra in any way while unprotected by the configuration which is at this time present.
therefore, this is a situation of potential infringement related to Ra.
Let's rephrase;
Q: Could you (gun owner) instruct me on the use of this shotgun.
A: To instruct someone on the use of a powerful gun, without first them having developed the stabilising muscles of the triceps and forearm, is to create the opportunity for disharmony befalling the entity.
I would suggest you never enter this shop without the protectors now present.
I also have a problem with this 'perfect' problem. If it has been clearly stated that in third density we cannot understand (16.37). I don't see the value of arbitrarily changing Ra's words because you don't agree with them.
Thanks for this:
βαθμιαίος Wrote:
89.44 "When the archetype is translated without regard for magical propriety into the manifested daily actions of an individual the greatest distortions may take place and great infringement upon the free will of others is possible."
I did study archetypes for a time and got 'effects' from them, probably at a lower level than this, but had missed this line.
RE: Can the human infringe by doing the learning for another? - unity100 - 07-16-2010
(07-16-2010, 12:11 PM)Phoenix Wrote: I also have a problem with this 'perfect' problem. If it has been clearly stated that in third density we cannot understand (16.37). I don't see the value of arbitrarily changing Ra's words because you don't agree with them.
if this is related to the matter of infinity, there is nothing about not to understand in 3d. infinity is infinity. you just cannot manifest it.
if this is related to infringement of the likes GLB talks about, then, it is again irrelevant - because the types of infringement like in adept's work is not only a potential for a 6d wanderer in 3d, but also a 3d entity doing adept work in 3d. remember that these teachings were given to 3d entities when they were first given. so, they are understandable and usable by them, even if a bit harder than an 6d entity would be able to.