Quote:Given that Ra has evolved on a path through the STO polarization and not yet personally experienced a 3rd 4th 5th or 6th D STS polarized harvest, is it possible that their insights into the full potential and nature of the STS path may be skewed by their limited perspective and experience?

Quote:Do all STS entities deny free will of others, or do some perceive it and respect it in the way I explained in my above post? copied - 'it's my understanding that there is a level of trust within the STS polarized entity that believes that the other self that they are interacting with has chosen freely through its own confusion to be a co-creator in such a way where they appear to be controlled, manipulated, or otherwise infringed upon.'

Quote:Secondly, do all STS entities pull on other selves, or do some simply allow for others to experience be pulled while allowing for that same other to continue to experience having freely chosen who and what they are? It seems to me that if one is being pulled and is accusing another of pulling them, then they are STS in their judgement of claiming another is responsible for what they experience and what they feel. The one doing the pulling in this case would be polarizing STO because it is perceiving its action in a way congruent with STO polarization.

Quote:Is it possible that an act alone cannot be defined as STO or STS because it requires awareness of intent and belief before such a definition can be assigned? It seems to me that any or all action has the potential to assist in polarization either STO or STS for one who uses the catalyst in that manner.

Quote:That really made me consider your perspective comparing this to eating meat. I've always been eating meat thinking I would transmute their negative feelings of slavery into positive feelings about the taste and the transfer of energy that is occuring between two parts of the creator but I didn't felt concerned about them being slave since I wasn't actively contributing to it and wouldn't kill an animal if I had to do so to survive. But I can't deny eating meat definitly feels like not acknowledging freewill of an other entity. I always thought about it like animals were used as slaves by society. But that is missing the point. The point is about how someone eating meat feel about it. You cannot consider their freewill while eating their flesh. You can only not think about it or not feel it. Considering their freewill while eating their flesh would result in great cognitive dissonance.

Quote: I'm not so sure STS entities are that much interested in exploiting others rather than having no problem whatsoever in doing so if that is required to reach their goal. Their goal more than likely being way bigger in perspective than simply exploiting other selves. When put on a global scale, do you think the elites really just masturbate at the idea of denying everyone's freewill or are they simply ready to do anything to have money, fame, power, recognition. While I find the latter easier to compare to what I observe about the world, I think STS entities will simply find that denying people of their freewill the easiest way to reach that goal. But the freewill infringement isn't the goal in itself. It's just how I feel at the moment. I feel it would be like saying animals are being enslaved just for the sake of being enslaved.

Quote:

Quote:As to the second point, I agree with you on one level. But the "natural" progression of all ways is STO. In the quote I made above, Ra even says that the STS path is harder because in mid 6th density they have to learn how to do what the STO entity has been doing all along. That is why I say the STS path is "harder". Not less equal. Just a deliberately round-about way to unity.

Wouldn't you think STO is doing the exact same thing? How do you expect the entire STO polarity to absorb all the STS polarity in unity if it is not itself exploring the STS path meanwhile. I think this a mutual process. Else there would be no need for balancing. Your own quote from your previous post seems to point exactly to that idea that both must take from each in other to balance. I do get that you're trying to promote polarity instead of promoting the sinkhole which you do rightfully. You may have helped me take a step out of it actually. But I cannot conceive those 6D idea that STO is the right path and that STS just become STO. It seems to me like the effect of confusion not to remember that the entire STS polarity is indeed an STO project from the start and that the STO polarity is exploring the STS all along. I don't think an STO group could harvest into 7D without even touching the surface of their initial desire to work with a duality. (All is one, all is well, all is unity) To me those sentences don't mean all is right but STO is more valid. All is valid. All is rightful to be how it is. But I know you already know that.

Quote:I think the goal behind promoting the illusion of polarity is not to justify the sinkhole (it may have been in certain circumstances) but to free one from the chains caused by the veil which leads one to associate certain patterns as STO or STS in an inappropriate way while it is simply a projection of their biases. In some cases it may be more helpful for one to realize that before making a choice of polarity as it will be done with more honesty and a deeper understanding of the reasons why the choice is made.

Quote:I do agree with everything else you say. Your posts are well balanced and full of love as usual.

(02-29-2016, 05:11 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I'd disagree with the notion that the STS path is anymore linked to illusions than truth. The STO path moves through illusions and works with them just as the STS path does.

Both path are illusonary, they're two sides of a paradox that takes time to solve. Each express a different focus of this duality of self being among other-selves.

Quote:100.9 Questioner: It would also seem to me that, since Ra stated in the last session the limit of the viewpoint is the source of all distortions, that the very nature of the service-to-self distortions that create the left-hand path are a function of the veil [and] therefore are dependent, you might say, to some degree, on at least a partial continued veiling. Does this make any sense?

Ra: I am Ra. There is the thread of logic in what you suppose.

The polarities are both dependent upon a limited viewpoint. However, the negative polarity depends more heavily upon the illusory separation betwixt the self and all other mind/body/spirit complexes. The positive polarity attempts to see through the illusion to the Creator in each mind/body/spirit complex, but for the greater part is concerned with behaviors and thoughts directed towards other-selves in order to be of service. This attitude in itself is full of the stuff of your third-density illusion.

Quote:80.8 Questioner: I am sorry for my lack of penetration of these mechanisms and I apologize for some rather stupid questions, but I think we have here a point that is somewhat central to what we are presently attempting to understand, so even though my next questions may be almost unacceptably stupid, I will attempt to try to understand what this power that our visitor seeks is and how he uses it. For it seems to me that this is central to the mind and the evolution of it in which we are involved.

As this entity that is our visitor increases his power through these works, what is the power that he increases? Can you describe it?

Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.

The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.  

(03-02-2016, 11:08 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I guess I just come to this opinion based on the fact that the early Logos, before the veil, only had STO. There was no other choice. STO was all there was, because it was 'natural'. Then the veil was conceived, and experiments were made, and we developed realities like our earth one where we have the experience of slowly penetrating the veil. The STS path did not exist until the veil was conceptualized. Again, I do not mean it is a less valid, or less acceptable way, but Ra refers to what existed before as only service to others. It was different, because there was no relation polarity, but the same mechanism of configuring oneself to allow more and more of the creator's light into their being. Then the veil/STS gave everyone a reason to be STO, which is why is was such a great achievement. Because the "sinkhole" was an even bigger problem before veiling.

Quote:I think we have to look at the words you are using and consider them in a more metaphysical light. Free Will is a concept that means choice, and our system is set up that once someone starts choosing a path, that path doubles upon itself and then the choice doesn't exist in the same way that it does here, when we are incarnated with a clean slate. In STO land, everyone is radiating acceptance, so if eventually you had catalyst that made you want to act in an STS manner, that possibility/probability exists just because of the nature of the allowance of infinity. In STS land, everyone is absorbing the power and energy of others (money = energy, fame = power, power = energy) in whatever form they can. Using an entity's own free will, ie making them believe that they are making the choices that they want to just to feed the energy of the 'absorbing' entity, is their goal. The choice to radiate ceases to exist. In our society the main form of energy is money, and we give money so much power - again it is something that seems to double on itself. So, to convince people that they want to give you their hard earned money is prime STS in our day. Look at advertisements. Take the fact that people enslave themselves to 40+ hour a week jobs they hate so that they can buy new cars and phones, or health insurance. This is the perfect example of using one's own free will to enslave them. The entity at the top of this chain of command in each segment has a lot of metaphysical, negative power. They are absorbing it all from everyone.

Quote:The more I read about STS/STO discussions the more I realize it is not polarity that is illusion in itself but more the separation of paths. If there was only STO before the veil, it's kind of still the same. The veil being an illusion, every entity exploring STS is still STO at their roots. So polarity is not an illusion in the sense that there definitely is a choice offered to every entity for a path to choose. But it's more like whatever the choice is, it's never really escaping the STO path. Only in illusion it is possible to believe that one has chose a different path of it's own. But in the end it's still the creator exploring all of his different paths.

Quote:Are you talking about typical elites like politicians, bankers and the likes. Or are you referring to elite bloodlines? I believe those who are known to mainstream media pretty much fit in the ''ready to do anything to have what they want'' category. But elite bloodlines are definitely on a path of absorbing spiritual negative energy in whatever form they can. I think the distinction is important because their polarity is gained differently.

(03-02-2016, 04:40 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Yes they go hand in hand but I was more implying that those who are known in the mainstream medias may not even be spiritual people. They probably don't even realize what they are doing for most of them. They're less likely to be trying to gain negative polarity but their behaviors still have that effect. While the elite bloodlines are awakened people and they don't necessary have interest in money rather than sheer power over people because they are exactly trying to gain negative polarity. They try to rule mankind under divine guidance. The difference is in their intentions but the result is the same I guess.

Quote:Questioner: Yes, do the negative polarity people or entities, do they view us as positive polarity and themselves as negative, or do they not use this terminology or way of thinking? Perhaps I am not asking that clearly, I am not sure.

I am Q’uo. We believe we have the gist of your query. From the standpoint of the negative path the positive path is naive and weak. From the standpoint of the negative path the negative entity feels that it must look out for itself, and shall take all opportunities to take advantage of others who are naive and weak. It further feels that if these entities which are naive and weak learn from this experience to protect the self and use others who are naive and weak, then they have been of service in teaching a previously naive “babe in the woods” the nature of “the real world.”

Indeed, almost no negatively oriented entity wishes to use such prejudicial language about its path. The language is more often couched in terms of affirming the self. This is not to be confused with the process of accepting the imperfect and universal self as a heart of preparation for loving others as you love yourself. Do you see this, my brother?

Quote:Therefore, those who follow the path of negative polarity are almost always quite well aware of the process whereby all energies and entities about that person are subsumed and consumed by that person in order to bring added strength and power to the self. The times of slavery, shall we say, of which negatively polarizing entities are capable is large, however all are to one extent or another conscious.

Quote:Within that which is called the negative path, the consciousness more and more begins to conclude that all power, all glory, indeed, all of the creation resides within the consciousness of the self. Insofar as this conclusion is reached, it is identical to the conclusion reached by those who serve others. The negative path, however, chooses to worship not that which created this universe experienced, but the self for containing all that there is. Those who can handle this concept in a positive manner are few. There is no true surrender, no true desire to do the will of the Creator, but rather the Creator and the self, so co-mingled, become a non-thing, a non-thought, and in the end, an unworkable path of service.

Quote:As a positively polarized person living a life in faith, one is prone to feel safe in the arms of the good, the true, and the beautiful. However, the entity upon the negative path feels that there is no safety, feels that there is no haven, feels that it and only it shall be the one to be counted upon and relied upon. Therefore, this entity wishes to build personal power with a greater initial reason and impetus for building a magical personality. Furthermore, this magical personality is simpler to build that the positively oriented magical personality. The negative entity need only attempt to accrete to the self all possible power of any kind whatsoever without the need for discrimination or judgment. The positively polarized entity, instead, is moving through processes of balancing the seemingly opposite of all things to ascertain the most careful balance of truth, of beauty, and of goodness. For to the positively oriented entity it is clear that the illusion has the appearance of a bias toward negative events and circumstances. In order to clarify right action and the positive use of power careful balancing of all stimulus needs must be done.

Quote:the entity who has chosen the service-to-self path becomes more efficient in this service, there is more of that which you would call a disharmony produced. For the, what we could call, the natural order of things, that is, unity of all, is broken or fragmented into manyness in order that a small portion of that manyness may govern and manipulate a larger portion of that manyness, then the natural harmony which binds all things together is seemingly shattered upon one level of existence, that is, the illusion of the creation where the many must without question obey the few who feel it is their duty to set the universe in order. Thus, we find that the quality which you would call harmony is one of the first casualties upon this path.

Quote:These contacts with intelligent infinity do indeed occur for those upon the negatively or service-to-self oriented path. However, the experience is one which moves past the green-ray energy center from yellow to blue, then to indigo, in order that the negatively oriented entity, who sees compassion and love for all as folly, may experience a contact with the one Creator that is in accord with its chosen path, that which sees the power, the control, and the setting in order of those about it as its duty and as that which is most desired.

(03-02-2016, 02:51 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(02-29-2016, 05:11 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I'd disagree with the notion that the STS path is anymore linked to illusions than truth. The STO path moves through illusions and works with them just as the STS path does.

Both path are illusonary, they're two sides of a paradox that takes time to solve. Each express a different focus of this duality of self being among other-selves.

Quote:100.9 Questioner: It would also seem to me that, since Ra stated in the last session the limit of the viewpoint is the source of all distortions, that the very nature of the service-to-self distortions that create the left-hand path are a function of the veil [and] therefore are dependent, you might say, to some degree, on at least a partial continued veiling. Does this make any sense?

Ra: I am Ra. There is the thread of logic in what you suppose.

The polarities are both dependent upon a limited viewpoint. However, the negative polarity depends more heavily upon the illusory separation betwixt the self and all other mind/body/spirit complexes. The positive polarity attempts to see through the illusion to the Creator in each mind/body/spirit complex, but for the greater part is concerned with behaviors and thoughts directed towards other-selves in order to be of service. This attitude in itself is full of the stuff of your third-density illusion.

As I've said before, it is not that they don't know the difference between illusion and truth, they simply prefer illusion.

Quote:80.8 Questioner: I am sorry for my lack of penetration of these mechanisms and I apologize for some rather stupid questions, but I think we have here a point that is somewhat central to what we are presently attempting to understand, so even though my next questions may be almost unacceptably stupid, I will attempt to try to understand what this power that our visitor seeks is and how he uses it. For it seems to me that this is central to the mind and the evolution of it in which we are involved.

As this entity that is our visitor increases his power through these works, what is the power that he increases? Can you describe it?

Ra: I am Ra. The power of which you speak is a spiritual power. The powers of the mind, as such, do not encompass such works as these. You may, with some fruitfulness, consider the possibilities of moonlight. You are aware that we have described the Matrix of the Spirit as a night. The moonlight, then, offers either a true picture seen in shadow or chimera and falsity. The power of falsity is deep as is the power to discern truth from shadow. The shadow of hidden things is an infinite depth in which is stored the power of the One Infinite Creator.

The adept, then, is working with the power of hidden things illuminated by that which can be false or true. To embrace falsity, to know it, to seek it, and to use it gives a power that is most great. This is the nature of the power of your visitor and may shed some light upon the power of one who seeks in order to serve others as well, for the missteps in the night are oh! so easy.  

(03-02-2016, 04:40 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Yes they go hand in hand but I was more implying that those who are known in the mainstream medias may not even be spiritual people. They probably don't even realize what they are doing for most of them. They're less likely to be trying to gain negative polarity but their behaviors still have that effect. While the elite bloodlines are awakened people and they don't necessary have interest in money rather than sheer power over people because they are exactly trying to gain negative polarity. They try to rule mankind under divine guidance. The difference is in their intentions but the result is the same I guess.

Quote:10.11 Questioner: While an entity is incarnate in this third density at this time he may either learn without consciously knowing what he’s doing, or he may learn after he is consciously aware that he is learning in the ways of the Law of One. The second way, it is possible for the entity to greatly accelerate his growth. Is not this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

(03-03-2016, 09:02 AM)Minyatur Wrote: As I said I fail to see how the STO path is not as focused upon illusions.

(03-03-2016, 11:18 AM)earth_spirit Wrote: I agree with Minyatur. Some Ra channellings you quoted never *quite* resonated with me in this sense.

(03-03-2016, 11:18 AM)earth_spirit Wrote: IMHO it is quite feasible for an incarnate STS entity to see "others" as Creator, extensions of himself to be bent to his will.

If "illusion" and "falsity" is interchangeable, then the term STO itself is a falsity.

IMHO I need not see through illusions to be STO. Such seeking would be a tool, not a requirement. Likewise I need not obscure the truth to be STS. Such (self)deception would be a tool, again not a requirement.

You sound too assuming when you say "they want this" / "they don't want that". I would ask you to perhaps not present your opinions in absolute terms, but the burden is on the reader not to take anything at face value.

(03-03-2016, 11:18 AM)earth_spirit Wrote: It is possible to "savor the illusion" as an STO entity. And it is arguably possible to pursue the STS path with full knowledge that it will at some point be deliberately abandoned.

(03-03-2016, 12:19 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: If you had asked "why would negative polarity not try to obscure the truth" (what I stated as a possibility which is a bit different from your question), my answer would be; the truth is that all actions are a service, even apparently hateful, painful or controlling ones. If this is the truth, then what is not to love from the perspective of a negative entity?

(03-03-2016, 12:19 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: I am unaware of any assumptions I may be making, other than offering possibilities that do not align with or are unstated in Ra material.

Quote:I find it rather difficult to contemplate how STS would be "more heavily" dependent on the illusion of separation when neither polarity could possibly exist without it.

Quote:77.19 Questioner: Do the Logoi that choose this type of evolution choose both the service-to-self and the service-to-others path for different Logoi, or do they choose just one of the paths?

Ra: I am Ra. Those, what you would call, early Logoi which chose lack-of-free-will foundations, to all extents with no exceptions, founded Logoi of the service-to-others path. The, shall we say, saga of polarity, its consequences and limits, were unimagined until experienced.

(03-03-2016, 12:42 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: STO can exist without STS, not the other way around.

(03-03-2016, 12:59 PM)earth_spirit Wrote: Given that seperation is an illusion, it is impossible to serve one to the exclusion of others. I'm inclined to believe everything is a service to all.

Quote:85.11 Questioner: Then the service-to-[self] path have potentiated that which is not. Could you expand that a little bit so I can understand it better?

Ra: I am Ra. If you see the energy centers in their various colors completing the spectrum you may see that the service-to-[self] choice is one which denies the very center of the spectrum; that being universal love. Therefore, all that is built upon the penetration of the light of harvestable quality by such entities is based upon an omission. This omission shall manifest in fourth density as the love of self; that is, the fullest expression of the orange and yellow energy centers which then are used to potentiate communication and adepthood.

When fifth-density refinement has been achieved that which is not is carried further, the wisdom density being explored by entities which have no compassion, no universal love. They experience that which they wish by free choice, being of the earnest opinion that green-ray energy is folly.

That which is not may be seen as a self-imposed darkness in which harmony is turned into an eternal disharmony. However, that which is not cannot endure throughout the octave of third density and, as darkness eventually calls the light, so does that which is not eventually call that which is.

(03-02-2016, 10:51 PM)anagogy Wrote:

(03-02-2016, 04:40 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Yes they go hand in hand but I was more implying that those who are known in the mainstream medias may not even be spiritual people. They probably don't even realize what they are doing for most of them. They're less likely to be trying to gain negative polarity but their behaviors still have that effect. While the elite bloodlines are awakened people and they don't necessary have interest in money rather than sheer power over people because they are exactly trying to gain negative polarity. They try to rule mankind under divine guidance. The difference is in their intentions but the result is the same I guess.

To be honest, I don't even think so called "negative elite" are trying to "gain polarity".  And I don't think most positive spiritual people are trying "to gain polarity" either.  I think that it is more of an organic process.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there is no awareness of polarity in those who are polarizing, just that they don't have that sort of intellectual relationship to it.  We students of the Ra material are probably in the minority in that regard.  I think in most "spiritual" people, the awareness is simply one of tapping into some force greater than themselves.

Gaining power is the spirituality of the negatively polarized, while sharing love is the spirituality of the positively polarized.  And that's about as conscious as it gets for 99.9% of the polarized population.

(03-02-2016, 04:40 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: I agree with everything you say though I wonder why you find it hard to believe some negative elite aren't trying to gain negative polarity consciously. I mean Ra shoulders a part of earth's positive wanderer's why would it be farfetched to think there wouldn't be a negative entity like orion shouldering the negative path with negative wanderers incarnating in the bloodlines to keep the power to gain negative polarity for those who already have it. It is in their interests to do so. It seems simple logic to me. A mirror to what happens on the positive path. I don't think it goes against anything Ra said and it seems like simply applying as above as below. Some lineage of extremely powerful people goes really far into history of mankind.

(03-03-2016, 03:55 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: Obviously they are a minority. Like anything the majority has always tendencies towards confusion.

(03-03-2016, 03:55 PM)matrix_drumr Wrote: About your previous post I think '' service to all'' definitely feels more accurate to describe the path STO without STS. STS is seen also as STA once the illusion of the path which is not is peirced. They all becomes service to the all but without STS there are no illusions of separation which means no others to serve and therefore only the all to serve.

(02-28-2016, 09:08 PM)Papercut Wrote: I'm positively sure that I am STS.
Reason being is because I've realized that it will be easier for me to move forward spiritually if I separate my self from the other selves them being too much into this material word. Although I do not deny that they are the same as me.
Each has his own path and that is okay, I just do not want yet to cross paths with other selves which aren't yet aware of the one.
I do not wish to use/manipulate/destroy, or become powerful/rich. I just want to love my self for this moment being.

Question to the posters above.
Just because I'm not willing to be in service to other selves means I am evil? Why is that

(03-03-2016, 04:14 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: I think Ra almost exclusively means "service to all" when they refer to service to others, I think the others vs. self dichotomy is just to differentiate between one serving with the open heart and one serving with the closed heart.

(03-03-2016, 04:36 PM)Minyatur Wrote: If Ra calls it the path of that which is not, it seems more to hint that Ra as a whole hasn't fully distilled the mirror it is unto itself. What is is what we all are.