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RE: Earth as a living entity? - Diana - 02-05-2015
(02-02-2015, 09:18 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Why are you apologizing for that which already is perfect.
This sounds to me like New Age jargon. No offense intended. Off-world entities like Ra may be able to really embody this idea. But, down here in the trenches, could anyone here be in Africa, and actually look at dying children starving and be okay with it, think it's perfect? Could anyone here watch, in person, innocent people (including babies and children) getting killed and worse, maimed and suffering, by various horrible means in war zones?
I understand the concept of envisioning everything as perfect. I endeavor to accept and not resist. But there is also acknowledgment to this Earth as a being, that we recognize her as a being who is respected. And that we take responsibility as a species for what we have done and do.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - Minyatur - 02-06-2015
(02-05-2015, 04:28 PM)Diana Wrote:(02-02-2015, 09:18 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Why are you apologizing for that which already is perfect.
This sounds to me like New Age jargon. No offense intended. Off-world entities like Ra may be able to really embody this idea. But, down here in the trenches, could anyone here be in Africa, and actually look at dying children starving and be okay with it, think it's perfect? Could anyone here watch, in person, innocent people (including babies and children) getting killed and worse, maimed and suffering, by various horrible means in war zones?
I understand the concept of envisioning everything as perfect. I endeavor to accept and not resist. But there is also acknowledgment to this Earth as a being, that we recognize her as a being who is respected. And that we take responsibility as a species for what we have done and do.
In the sense that all is One, it's not only about being okay with it, you are every single person that created this suffering as well as all those who have suffered from it here on this sphere as well as everywhere in time and space.
What responsability do you really have? If you are a wanderer, you are just wandering through here, just passing by and as such what responsability can you really have? You are aware of the "imperfections" of this world because you are at a later stage of growth which entities of this planet have not reached and so do not understand. You'd wish for there to be no suffering but that is this the experience that emerged of their free will and so that was chosen. These feelings it gives you may be what you wanted to experience and learn from and so why you are here.
As an entity, the Earth is much older than any of us. It is further in it's stage of growth and is where and how it has decided to be. It provides a place for consciousness to grow and learn and I would not condemn those consciousness that are growing and learning in their own way in the place they were given for that purpose.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - Minyatur - 02-06-2015
(02-04-2015, 01:02 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote:(02-03-2015, 02:58 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I view restitution as a natural part of the process which will come in it's own time…
By what agency, what entities, what forces will this restitution come in its own time?
Whenever it happens, won’t it be a result of entities desiring, intending, and choosing it? Like you indicate below, whatever we experience is a result of our choice.
It is, but I think there is a difference between being of this density and wandering through here. As the name implies a Wanderer does not belong here and the state of the planet does not reflect the stage of his own growth. I am for change but I think for a Wanderer the best is to bring change on a small scale to those that call for it and not feel a need to things to be changed. The change that we speak of will come from humanity as a whole as it progresses through time when they will learn lessons of 3D and feel the need of the lessons of 4D.
Quote:Bring4th_GLB
(02-03-2015, 02:58 PM)Minyatur Wrote: … but I think that wishing too much for a change doesn't respect free will and would be more STS than STO.
I differ here. I believe that attachment to outcome may lead to an STS mindset, but wanting and working for change is as much an attribute of positively polarized consciousness as it is negatively polarized consciousness.
What are we all doing here if not trying to “lighten the planetary vibration”, aka: change the planetary vibration?
There is a subtle difference, of course, between working to change the self and allowing that change to affect the whole, versus working to change others without working on the self.
I agree with this but I do not think the purpose to come here is to change the planetary vibration, I think it is a direct consequence of it. You are here for yourself, to learn by being here in 3D and being here you will cross path with entities of this density and of this sphere with whom you may share wisdom and love, if it is something they wish for just like one can pray to Yahweh for wisdom and love too. If you keep your mind pure, your simple presence here will lighten the planetary vibration without you interacting with anything. What I think is important is heeding to calls of change rather than thinking that change is needed and trying to make it happen. I think change is best brought on a small scale.
Quote:Bring4th_GLBMy position lies that there is a difference between a regular 3D and a Wanderer, a Wanderer shouldn't want one of 3D to change unless this person wishes it for himself else it is STS in my view. Which isn't not bad but I was under the impression that those of this forum wished to be STO. Most wanderers would be of 6D and so would be here to harvest into 7D where there would be no such thing as STO and STS, my position also lies in the fact that I try to understand things from a perspective that trancends this duality.
This inevitability of change, though, brings us back to the first question I asked. By what agency is this changed effectuated?
If the ascension of consciousness cannot be avoided, and someone like Stranger is, indeed, not avoiding it, but is instead actively participating in conscious evolution, then I’m at a loss to understand your position.
Quote:
Bring4th_GLB
Minyatur Wrote:I don't believe people need to be changed, they need to be helped in their growth when they call for it, everything that is ever done is from the Creator to the Creator and we are every victims as well as aggressors be it humans, alien races, STS entities, STO entities and every planet of every solar system be it this Octave or any other. Every distortion will be undistorted, every knots will be untied but you cannot expect people to undo these at a much younger soul age than you are, it may seem easy from the perspective of one who did but it is not and it is something that takes time and often many lives.
If you are saying that imposing a change upon others without understanding the rightness of their current situation is negative, I agree.
However, you responded to Stranger’s thoughts, and I didn’t see any indication that the perspective expressed by Stranger wished to impose change upon others.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you may be conflating working for change with attachment to outcome.
Wanderers saw the situation on planet Earth and, recognizing its total perfection, recognizing that the situation is a result of the free will of those upon Earth, recognizing that the situation reflects the maturity level of those upon Earth, nevertheless incarnated on this planet in order to change the situation.
They did not sit on the sidelines allowing the perfection to unfold as it will, knowing that eventually entities will come around to choosing their polarity because it is inevitable.
Rather, the Confederation and wanderers attempt to do their part in the most free-will respecting manner possible. That positive mindset includes not being attached to an outcome, but instead offering their best and allowing the cards (i.e., results) to fall where they may.
About me responding to Stranger, you are very right. I did so because I view this forum as a place to exchange such thoughts.
I do understand what you are saying of the confederation and wanderers, but I think that is something that is to be lost to harvest into 7D and so needs to be worked upon. 7D seems to be exactly what you said : "allowing the perfection to unfold as it will", isn't this what the Earth is doing?
Quote:Bring4th_GLB
Quote:MinyaturI see an aspect of Wandering as being affected by these things but instead of wishing for a quick change, we ought to learn understanding of other selves as to where they are in their growth. If earth ends up destroyed it will be the consequence of free will and is not something that should be prevented by force. Souls would experience a trauma from such an event and further grow from it. There is no such thing as a ultimate way for things to be, everything that happens is the consequence of the free will of ways for the Creator to be and every part of it deserves love.
Agreed that force should not be applied to achieve any outcome if the entity wishes to serve others in a positive sense. However, who in this thread has said anything about using force? What about Stranger wishing to apologize for the imbalanced relationship to this planet implies forcing an outcome?
That may have been a wrong use of words, but what I meant is that in my view, if one apologies on the behalf of something, it is because he views that something as being in wrong and in need to be changed else why would one apologize? But if it were different, it would only cut the Creator from a set of experiences. That isn't "bad" in itself but would come from a STS perspective in which reality should be more to one's liking than the way it actually is.
In short I viewed the act of apologizing for the way things are as a rejection of how they are. Wanting to define how things should be and how people should be is STS even with good intentions. I do not think it is a bad thing as there is no such thing as bad things but I am saying these things because I believe the people of this forum do not want to be STS while it is their right if they wish for it and so I share ideas with which one can resonate to or not. My words are nowhere absolute, my goal is simply sharing insights and by doing so I get insights in return from the answers. Win-win situation.
We may not be wandering here to change this planet but rather to learn from the way it is. That's what I think. And those who cross our path will also be influenced by us in many ways if it is what they wish and that is the impact that I seek. On a small scale with those who wish for it.
I'll add that if you view the Earth as a mother that loves unconditionally her childrens, she wouldn't need apologies on her spiritual toddlers' behalf. This is the most simplistic way I can state my view.
If the Earth is a mother that doesn't love totally unconditionally, it is part of this sphere growth process to learn it. Through infinity it will grow in unconditional love and at the end of this sphere existence, it will become a bigger Logos providing to and sharing the burden of more. That's what being a mother is all about, just like here in 3D there is no mother that truly loves unconditionally but still being a mother makes one grow toward it. Sometimes you have to endure but you grow in the process.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - AnthroHeart - 02-06-2015
The fact that Earth hasn't wiped us out for abusing her says she has much love for us. It could be unconditional.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - Minyatur - 02-06-2015
(02-06-2015, 07:48 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: The fact that Earth hasn't wiped us out for abusing her says she has much love for us. It could be unconditional.
I meant that the events that are hapenning may be viewed as a catalyst for the Earth to grow in unconditional love as a Logos.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - Steppingfeet - 02-10-2015
(02-05-2015, 04:28 PM)Diana Wrote:(02-02-2015, 09:18 AM)Minyatur Wrote: Why are you apologizing for that which already is perfect.
This sounds to me like New Age jargon. No offense intended. Off-world entities like Ra may be able to really embody this idea. But, down here in the trenches, could anyone here be in Africa, and actually look at dying children starving and be okay with it, think it's perfect? Could anyone here watch, in person, innocent people (including babies and children) getting killed and worse, maimed and suffering, by various horrible means in war zones?
I understand the concept of envisioning everything as perfect. I endeavor to accept and not resist. But there is also acknowledgment to this Earth as a being, that we recognize her as a being who is respected. And that we take responsibility as a species for what we have done and do.
Seeing that all is perfect, all is whole, all is complete, and all is well... if someone can actually, genuinely see this, they are seeing the truth.
I get why, though, you would call it jargon (in reply to Minyatur) because this perspective may be super-imposed or plastered over top of the suffering, disharmony, and difficulty that one does not want to confront; or this perspective may be invoked as a means of avoiding the work one does not want to do.
It is an elevated perspective, and doesn't seem to be typically available to those, as you say, down in the trenches. But at the same time it isn't the thing of fantasy, or something awaiting us billions of years in the future. Any one of us can potentially awaken Buddha consciousness (or whatever the minimum grade of consciousness needed to see perfection in seeming imperfection).
And from that perspective, the Buddhic (?) entity can see precisely the scenes you're describing - including starvation in Africa and the innocent and horrific casualties of war - and understand completely and fully that all is well, all is perfect.
The reason for this, as far as I can gather, is that such an entity has awakened to the undergirding Creator, that which is untouched by any of the phenomenal events within the world.
It would be like waking in the morning from your own nighttime dreaming, and reflecting on all the carnage and slaughter you had witnessed so vividly during your dream. You would realize instantly that each person you saw suffering in your dream was only a temporary form. Their seeming individualized experience and emotions were real within the context of the dream, but upon awakening, you realize each individual was just you, and that YOU are greater than any form, and whatever the contents of the dream, you remain, more or less, untouched by the events therein.
Something like that, at least...
Such a one, though, doesn't take a position of indifference in relationship to the illusory events of the world, including starvation, because they have discovered the unity of all things. There is still, generally, the desire to serve and to assist other aspects of the One Self still in the dream to awaken to who they are. The service is just offered from a higher standpoint, from the most profund/powerful/fundamental level: the radiance of being.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - Minyatur - 02-10-2015
In the end there are only beautiful souls of the One Creator which each are at their own stages of growth. I am glad to cross path with those with whom I do and try not to judge any person of this sphere.
In past lives I do not think I did many horrible things since I feel I came from a different kind of environment. But if I was here at previous stages of my own growth, I'd probably have done as those who do "evil" on this sphere if I had this kind of environment they do have while learning early lessons of evolution. Whoever says otherwise has too much pride which is why to whoever belittle one other self, I try to bring the idea of acceptance of this said other self because I think I think it is part of growth.
IMO, I doubt the Earth loves one who is fully STO more than one who is STS. At such a stage I would think there is greater understanding of other selves than that.
I'll add that IMO (always is my opinion nothing more
), if any events of this sphere bring forth something else than Love in yourself, that's just an indicator of distortions to work upon to achieve a greater balancing. Love is the correct response to all deeds.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - AnthroHeart - 02-10-2015
I agree that those born into "evil" families probably end up doing evil themselves. They probably have no choice in such difficult circumstances.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - Steppingfeet - 02-17-2015
(02-06-2015, 01:01 PM)Minyatur Wrote: It is, but I think there is a difference between being of this density and wandering through here. As the name implies a Wanderer does not belong here and the state of the planet does not reflect the stage of his own growth. I am for change but I think for a Wanderer the best is to bring change on a small scale to those that call for it and not feel a need to things to be changed. The change that we speak of will come from humanity as a whole as it progresses through time when they will learn lessons of 3D and feel the need of the lessons of 4D.
Hey Minyatur, How comes you think that the wanderer "does not belong here", or that the "state of the planet does not reflect the stage of his own growth".
Ra's thought on this causes me to think otherwise:
16.59 Ra: As we have said before, Wanderers become completely the creature of third density in mind/body complex.
Among the millions of (self-defined) wanderers I have known, I have not met a wanderer who is so removed or different from society that they don't have a stake in the health of the planet, or that they don't suffer the consequences of societal action. Nor have I met a wanderer who seems anything other than human.
I don't see wanderers as independent of the human milieu. They have human lessons with human fates and human suffering and human confusion.
Of course there is plenty of room for discussion regarding what is the best way to serve, or to bring about change, including whether one ought to bring about change.
(02-06-2015, 01:01 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I agree with this but I do not think the purpose to come here is to change the planetary vibration, I think it is a direct consequence of it. You are here for yourself, to learn by being here in 3D and being here you will cross path with entities of this density and of this sphere with whom you may share wisdom and love, if it is something they wish for just like one can pray to Yahweh for wisdom and love too. If you keep your mind pure, your simple presence here will lighten the planetary vibration without you interacting with anything. What I think is important is heeding to calls of change rather than thinking that change is needed and trying to make it happen. I think change is best brought on a small scale.
I think I agree with you on the notion that change, in a way, comes about on its own. That attaching ourselves to outcomes isn't the highest and best, but that through practicing presence, compassion, forgiveness, etc., growth will happen of its own accord, we will affect others without trying, and the situation will just sort of change... seemingly on its own. Also, as you say, through the small scale, that is, ones individual, more local sphere of influence.
But I don't agree with the thought regarding the purpose of wanderers.
According to Ra:
65.11 Questioner: Well, this entire scenario over the next, shall I say, twenty years seems to be aimed at producing an increase in seeking and an increase in the awareness of the natural creation, but also a terrific amount of confusion. Was it the pre-incarnative objective of many of the Wanderers to attempt to reduce this confusion?
Ra: I am Ra. It was the aim of Wanderers to serve the entities of this planet in whatever way was requested and it was also the aim of Wanderers that their vibratory patterns might lighten the planetary vibration as a whole, thus ameliorating the effects of planetary disharmony and palliating any results of this disharmony.
Not only did wanderers wish to lighten the planetary vibration for the increase of harvest, but to make sure the planet survived in one piece into the harvest.
Ra mentions elsewhere how waves of wanderers incarnated with specific missions to help foster cognitive and technological changes in society.
In addition to the possibility of accelerating their own evolution thanks to the intensified catalyst of this planet, the big reason wanderers incarnated here was to affect the situation on the ground, first and foremost through radiance of being.
If they didn't wish to have a direct and immediate impact, they would have stayed in the etiolated realms where they could beam wavelengths of love and light to their heart's content. But from that vantage point they are limited, their hands are tied behind their backs. Here, they have a right and a responsibility to work for change.
Though again, first and foremost through self-work that leads to the radiation of realization of oneness with the Creator.
(02-06-2015, 01:01 PM)Minyatur Wrote: My position lies that there is a difference between a regular 3D and a Wanderer, a Wanderer shouldn't want one of 3D to change unless this person wishes it for himself else it is STS in my view.
Oh, agreed. Service upon the positive path can only be rendered to the extent it is requested.
(02-06-2015, 01:01 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I do understand what you are saying of the confederation and wanderers, but I think that is something that is to be lost to harvest into 7D and so needs to be worked upon. 7D seems to be exactly what you said : "allowing the perfection to unfold as it will", isn't this what the Earth is doing?
This question not computing. It could be because of 3D hardware installed in my brain. Or actually, it is the brain. Can you clarify?
(02-06-2015, 01:01 PM)Minyatur Wrote: That may have been a wrong use of words, but what I meant is that in my view, if one apologies on the behalf of something, it is because he views that something as being in wrong and in need to be changed else why would one apologize? But if it were different, it would only cut the Creator from a set of experiences. That isn't "bad" in itself but would come from a STS perspective in which reality should be more to one's liking than the way it actually is.
I think I get the meditative mindset with which you wish to greet all catalyst, labeling it neither "good" nor "bad" but embracing all as a perfect and particular manifestation of the infinite One.
I don't think that to apologize, however, necessarily means labeling an event, decision, situation, or choice as "bad". (Though certainly apologies may stem from condemnation or judgment of some activity.)
Apologizing can simply be an activity that moves in the intended, positive direction from more distortion to less. An apology in the human realm where conflicts arise between people will probably go a lot farther at restoring harmony than will, "I see only perfection and thus see no need to apologize."
Chances are you should apologize for using the last of the milk in the fridge... without replacing it no less!
(02-06-2015, 01:01 PM)Minyatur Wrote: My words are nowhere absolute, my goal is simply sharing insights and by doing so I get insights in return from the answers. Win-win situation.
Indeed. Thank you for sharing. I enjoy your consistently mellow tone.
(02-06-2015, 01:01 PM)Minyatur Wrote: I'll add that if you view the Earth as a mother that loves unconditionally her childrens, she wouldn't need apologies on her spiritual toddlers' behalf. This is the most simplistic way I can state my view.
True. Then again, apologizing may be of benefit to those toddlers, a means to express love, to acknowledge distorted behavior, and to ground a desire to act with less distortion toward their mother.
Much love,
GLB
RE: Earth as a living entity? - Minyatur - 02-18-2015
Well what I said about apologizing may have been a bit harsh as I also tend to apoligize but I still wouldn't want anyone apolgize to me and I think the Earth is the same as a Logos.
What I said about 7D is because we are wandering here for the purpose of increasing the positive vibration of the planet which I think I am doing. But other than that, we come from a 6D social memory complex which wishes to harvest into 7D. IMO Ra has an imbalance toward STO and a lack of understanding of the STS side of Creation because the group came from a STO world. We are wandering here also to make up the lack of being confronted with STS and there is much to learn here.
I view this 3D sphere as a huge mess of many STS mirrors which we came to be reflected through. Not accepting STS sides of the Earth IMO is the reflecting of imbalances that are to be worked upon if the social memory complex wishes to be harvestable as that it hasn't yet balanced wisdom and love, and as such the understanding to be gained, is what is truly a Logos.
For exemple the Earth let itself as a 7D entity become polarized negatively and thus provoke events such as earthquakes and tsunamis. The STS actions of the Earth toward the human race makes in turn the human race lose in negative polarity and gain afterward in positive polarity. The role of a Logos transcends wanting to be solely STO so what could a 6D social memory complex learn from a STS planet other than understanding of the STS side of Creation.
Ra said that 6D negative entities usually come to see the limits of the STS path, but I think Ra was mistaken if he thought that to harvest into 7D he doesn't need to come to see the limits of the STO path. For reference, I believe to be of Ra so I feel like Ra saying this which is awkward in way.
What I'm saying would apply to 6D wanderers, which are supposed to be most of us.
RE: Earth as a living entity? - Bluebell - 02-18-2015
thanks for the food for thought u guys, great discussion.