Quote:If everyone in the United States decided to eat a vegan diet, would there be enough food to feed the 10 billion people the U.N. projects will inhabit the planet by 2100? According to a recent article in Marketplace, the answer is yes. Here’s why:

The article focuses on the corn market, but not the kind of corn that you find canned or frozen at your local grocery store. The corn centered on is used as animal feed. In the United States, field corn is the largest crop in the country, but only 8.5 percent goes into our foods and drinks, leaving the majority of corn grown in the United States to fill up the bellies of animals raised for food.

StopHungerNow.org reports that "one in every nine people on our planet goes to bed hungry each night." And Bruce Babcock, an economics professor at Iowa State University, says if more people transitioned to a vegan diet, "there would be such a surplus of farmland to grow kumquats and pecans that we would be awash in those, in a heartbeat."

To put it simply, there are 842 million people who do not have enough to eat and a compassionate diet will do more than help the billions of animals killed each year for food; it is a solution that has the potential to feed millions of people by using the 90 million acres of land currently used to grow corn to feed factory-farmed animals to grow vegetables instead.

"The trick would be convincing the country - and other countries that import animal feed from the U.S. - to go vegan. We would have more land available for the 10 billion than they would know what to do with," Babcock concludes.

Consumers can help feed the world’s hungry, and withdraw their support from an industry that treats animals like machines by transitioning away from meat and other animal products. You can order your free Vegetarian Starter Guide here.

Quote:Human hunger and malnutrition

"Every day forty thousand children die in the world for lack of food. We who overeat in the West, who are feeding grains to animals to make meat, are eating the flesh of these children."
- Thich Nhat Hanh

Over 20 million people will die this year as a result of malnutrition and approximately one billion people, mostly rural women and children, suffer chronic hunger. A lot of food that is currently fed to animals could instead be used to feed the world's hungry people directly. To produce just one kilogram of beef protein, it takes at least seven kilograms of grain and other plant protein to be fed to a cow. Eighty percent of starving children live in countries that actually have food surpluses - the children remain hungry because farmers use the surplus grain to feed animals instead of people. References: Feast or Famine: Meat Production and World Hunger by Mark Hawthorne, Immoral maize: how meat-heavy diets are pricing sub-Saharan Africa out of nutrition, Global hunger: The more meat we eat, the fewer people we can feed.
The environment and human rights
Animal production is a major cause of environmental destruction, including global warming. In all countries, a healthy environment is a pre-condition for the enjoyment of many human rights, such as life, health, and wellbeing. Global warming will have most impact on countries which are already suffering in terms of human rights and hunger.

Lack of fresh water
Fresh water is becoming a scarce resource and is used to excess for the production of animal products. The lack of fresh water is a major cause of disease transmission, especially amongst the poor.

The rights of indigenous people
Major causes of deforestation are growing cattle for meat and growing crops to feed farmed animals. Deforestation is often in areas occupied by indigenous people and their rights are likely to be ignored.

Conflict
As the environment degrades there will be more conflict between nations for access to natural resources such as fresh water and food. Those most affected by these resource wars will be the powerless and the poor.

Violence
The effect of the normalising of violence towards non-human animals on acts of violence towards humans has been the subject of some scientific research. For example, the article Vegan Diet Impacts California Prison, says that the results of adopting a vegan diet were "amazing".

Effect on workers in slaughterhouses
Human Rights Watch states that working at a slaughterhouse is "the most dangerous factory job in America". Slaughterhouse workers suffer from illness or injury many times more than workers in other manufacturing jobs. As well as the physical injury slaughterhouse workers suffer from, there are also the disturbing psychological costs, as detailed in A Slaughterhouse Nightmare: Psychological Harm Suffered by Slaughterhouse Employees and the Possibility of Redress through Legal Reform. Workers suffer from a loss of compassion, allowing them to kill without caring. Natural instincts to empathise with the pain and death of animals are suppressed. This desensitisation to suffering in animals is linked to a higher propensity for committing violent crimes towards humans, particularly domestic abuse. For more on this topic, see Creating Killers: Human Tolls of Slaughter and Distanced from death: animal cruelty at the abattoir.

Quote:Boverty was defined in the previous post as the human impact of too many bovines overwhelming the local biosphere’s ability to feed them … the bovines are usually cattle and more than a few African countries have boverty induced poverty. Their livestock is a millstone around their necks and helping to keep them poor.

Western aid organisations, particularly those run by BBQ obsessed Australians, seem dominated by people haven’t woken up to the simple fact that the foods they grew up on when the planet had half its present population haven’t been sustainable globally for a very long time. Even in Australia, with its vast landmass and small human population, the production of these foods has driven and continues to drive water shortages, environmental degradation and biodiversity loss.

...
Ethiopia and Sudan have 43 million and 41 million cattle respectively. In Ethiopia 80 million people eat 11 million tonnes of food while those 43 million cattle and assorted other livestock graze 80 million tonnes and are fed a further 20 million tonnes as feed.

...

Proving that cattle cause starvation is tough, but demonstrating that cattle don’t protect people from food insecurity is trivially easy. It’s in the numbers.

...

This plot of per capita cattle ratios and undernourishment proportions shows pretty clearly that livestock are not effective in protecting people from hunger. Compare the food security of Nigeria, famously the happiest country on the planet which feeds 154 million people, with an undernourishment rate of 8 percent with Ethiopia, Sudan, Chad and Botswana. The latter have some of the worst poverty and chronic undernourishment on the planet while swimming in cattle and burning the s*** out of their country every year. All the countries to the right of the 0.3 cattle per capita vertical line have more cattle per head of human population than the US. Allowing for the difference in cattle size we should really shift this line to about the 0.5 point. So Niger, Chad, Sudan and such have more cattle than the famously obese hamburger munching US. But still they starve. Does it look like more cattle will fix anything?

...

This is land that can grow vast amounts of food but is currently set on fire in a massive cattle conflagration each year that produces nothing but ongoing boverty.

To be specific, Ethiopia, for example, claims (see above IPCC submission) about 73 million hectares of land suitable for farming but is using just 7 million. It has 3.7 million hectares suitable for irrigation and with adequate river water resources but has only 160,000 under irrigation.

Africa’s undernutrition problem, put simply, is that more than a few countries have a culture which prefers cattle and burning the s*** out of the country to growing food.

(10-20-2014, 05:09 AM)Unbound Wrote: What would happen to all the animals if they were suddenly freed? What would they eat then if the food they are fed was fed to children?

(10-20-2014, 07:09 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Pseudoscientific speculation to sway rich American prejudice is pure propaganda. The elites of this world love to distort the facts to create chaotic division , us/ them mentality and foment hatred and rage.

(10-20-2014, 07:09 AM)Shemaya Wrote: In Africa where I was in the countryside, every square inch of land was cultivated.

(10-20-2014, 07:09 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Missionaries and the like ( ie. vegangelicals) are just unaware shills for the hostile takeover of the world for STS agenda. It's WRONG!

(10-20-2014, 07:09 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Veganism is an ideology that appeases the guilt Westerner's have for stealing the land and resources of our 3rd world neighbors. Wrong on every level of what is good, noble and true. Veganism as a moral standard will just assist the STS agenda, and that ( profit driven corporate takeover) needs to STOP asap or the world is going to suffer immensely.

Quote:An issue not even thought about
by most people, even many of those
in the fight for animal rights, is the
effects on the minds of those people
who do the actual slaughter of the
chickens. You see, the killing machine
can never slit the throat of every bird
that goes by, especially those that the
stunner does not stun properly. So,
you have what is known as a "killer"
whose job it is to catch those birds
so that they are not scalded alive in the
tank. (Of course he can't catch all of
them, but we'll get to that.)

(Keep in mind while you read this that
the plant I worked at was the smallest
Tyson had. They have some that are
much bigger that run hundreds of
thousands of birds a shift.)

Picture this: You are told by your supervisor
that it is your night in the kill room. You
think, "Sh*t, it's gonna be a rough night
tonight." No matter what the weather is
like outside, this room is hot, between
90-100F. The scalders also keep the
humidity at about 100%. You can see
the steam in the air as a kind of haze.
You put on your plastic apron to cover
your whole body from the sprays of blood
and the hot water that keeps the killing
machine's blade clean and washes the floor.
You put on the steel glove and pick up the
knife. It's very sharp. It has to be.

You can hear the squawking from the
chickens being hung in the next room
as well as the metal shackles rattling.
You can hear the motors that drive the
chickens down the line. It is so loud you
could scream and not hear yourself. (I've
done it just to see.) You have to
communicate with hand signals to anyone
who might come in. Although, no one
wants to. They only come in if they have
to. And they certainly donj't want to startle
you.Not with a sharp knife in your hand.
If you whirled around......

Here come the birds through the stunner
into the killing machine. It's time to get
busy. You can expect to have to catch
every 5th one or so, many that are not
stunned. Remember, they come at you
182-186 per minute. There is blood
everywhere, in the 3'x3'x20' trough
beneath the machine, on your face, your
neck, your arms, all down your apron.
You are covered in it. Sometimes you
have to wash off the clots of blood,
without taking your eyes off the line
lest one slip by, which they will....

You can't catch them all, but you try.
Every time you miss one you "hear" the
awful squawk it's making when you see
it flopping around in the scalder, beating
itself against the sides. Damn, another
"redibird." You know that for every one
you see suffer like this, there have been
as many as 10 you didn't see. You just
know it happens. You just
want to get through the night and go home.
But, it will be a long 2 1/2 hours until break
time. More than two hours of killing nonstop.
At least a couple dozen chickens a minute
at best. At worst, a whole lot more.

The sheer amount of killing and blood
can really get to you after awhile, especially
if you can't just shut down all emotion
completely and turn into a robot zombie
of death. You feel like part of a big death
machine. Pretty much treated that way as
well. Sometimes weird thoughts will enter
your head. It's just you and the dying
chickens. The surreal feelings grow into
such a horror of the barbaric nature of
your behavior.

You are murdering helpless birds by
the thousands (75,000 to 90,000 a night).
You are a killer.

You can't really talk to anyone about
this. The guys at work will think you are
soft. Family and friends don't want to
know about this. It makes them
uncomfortable and unsure of what
to say or how to act. They can even
look at you a little weird. Some don't
want much else to do with you when they
know what you do for a living.
You are a killer.

Out of desperation you send your
mind elsewhere so that you don't end
up like those guys that lose it. Like the
guy that fell on his knees praying to God
for forgiveness. Or the guy they hauled
off to the mental hospital that kept having
nightmares that chickens were after him.
I've had those, too. (shudder) Very creepy.
You find something else to dwell on to try
to remove yourself from the situation.
To keep your mind from drowning in all
those hundreds of gallons of blood you
see. Most people who work this room and
work in the hanging cage use some sort
of stimulant to keep up the pace and some
sort of mellowing substance to escape reality.

You become more prone to violence.
When you get angry you become much
more likely to physically attack whatever
or whoever you are mad at. You are a lot
more likely to use a weapon than you were.
Especially a knife. A sharp one.
You are a killer.

You begin to feel a sense of disgust
at yourself at what you have done and
continue to do. You are ashamed to
tell others what you do at night while
they are asleep in their beds.
You are a killer.

People tend to avoid you, even others
at the plant, whether from instinct or
because they know what you do and
can't understand how you can do it
night after night. There must be
something wrong with you. You have
the smell of death on you.
You are a killer. A mass murderer.

You shut down all emotions eventually.
You just can't care about anything.
Because if you care about something,
it opens the gate to all those bad feelings
that you can't afford to feel and still
do your job. You have bills to pay.
You have to eat. But, you don't want
chicken. You have to be really hungry
to eat that. You know what goes into e
very bite. All the horror and negativity.
All the brutality.

Concentrated into every bite.

Many people who do this commit violent
acts. They commit crimes. People who
already are criminals tend to gravitate
towards this job. You can't have a strong
conscience and kill living creatures night
after night.

You feel isolated from society, not a
part of it. Alone. You know you are
different from most people. They don't
have visions of horrible death in their heads.
They have not seen what you have seen.
And they don't want to. They don't even
want to hear about it.

If they did, how could they eat that next
piece of chicken?

Welcome to the nightmare I escaped.
I'm better now. I play well with others,
at least most of the time......

Quote:According to slaughter plant worker, Tommy Vladak, "After they left me, the hogs would go up a ramp to a tank where they're dunked in 140° water. By the time they hit the scalding tank, they're still fully conscious. " They get up to the scalding tank, hit the water, & start kicking & screaming. A rotating pushes them under. I am not sure if they burn to death before they drown, but it takes them a couple of minutes to stop thrashing." Here's your bacon - and your victims.
(text is courtesy of Mercy For Animals. and the book Slaughterhouse: The Shocking Story of Greed, Neglect, and Inhumane Treatment Inside the U.S. Meat Industry)

(10-20-2014, 07:09 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Veganism is an ideology that appeases the guilt Westerner's have for stealing the land and resources of our 3rd world neighbors. Wrong on every level of what is good, noble and true. Veganism as a moral standard will just assist the STS agenda, and that ( profit driven corporate takeover) needs to STOP asap or the world is going to suffer immensely.

(10-20-2014, 12:51 PM)Unbound Wrote: How do you know that? What if meat-eaters also want to stop cruel practices and shut down farms? Why is the single, only possible way through people going vegan?

(10-20-2014, 12:51 PM)Unbound Wrote: Also, on the topic of "animals living naturally", how about domestic animals then? Is domestication part of their "natural" life style now?

(10-20-2014, 12:51 PM)Unbound Wrote: How do you know that? What if meat-eaters also want to stop cruel practices and shut down farms?

(10-20-2014, 12:51 PM)Unbound Wrote: Why is the single, only possible way through people going vegan?

(10-20-2014, 12:51 PM)Unbound Wrote: Also, on the topic of "animals living naturally", how about domestic animals then? Is domestication part of their "natural" life style now?

(10-20-2014, 01:18 PM)Unbound Wrote: So what exactly do you think the role of humans is on the planet, since we seem to do so many different things?

(10-20-2014, 01:21 PM)Unbound Wrote: In regards to this issue, and how would your view accommodate the diversity of humans?

Quote:At the time, the State of California had a recidivism rate of 95%. This is the percentage of former prisoners who are rearrested. The Victor Valley facility enjoyed a recidivism rate of less than 2%.

So, what was the key factor behind this success? A vegan diet.

Upon arrival, new inmates attended an orientation where they received two clear choices. They could live on one side of the prison which operated using the standard California Department of Corrections (CDC) guidelines and food menus; or, they could live on the side of the prison operated under the “NEWSTART” program which included a vegan diet, bible studies, job training and anger management.

In a video-taped interview obtained by Vegetarian Spotlight, Victor Valley nutrition services coordinator Julianne Aranda explains that “what we eat not only affects us physically, but it affects our mental attitude, our aggressiveness and our ability to make good decisions”. In interview after interview it was clear that the NEWSTART program staff was in agreement that the mind and body must be cleaned up in order for the inmates to achieve positive behavioral changes.

Initially, although the State of California was very supportive of the NEWSTART concept, they told Moorland they didn’t believe that even five inmates (of the 500) would accept that kind of a diet. In fact, they told Moorland that inmates would probably “burn the place down before they became vegetarians”. However, once the program was in progress, the opposite became true. On average, 85% of the inmates chose the NEWSTART side while only 15% chose the CDC program.

The remarkable behavioral changes could even be seen outside in the prison yard where according to prison officials, nobody “owned” or controlled the yard. Typical lines drawn between blacks, whites, hispanics, gang members and other groups were non existent. On the NEWSTART side, everyone played basketball together and had great fellowship. The CDC side of the house had the same racial divisions experienced at any other prison.

In testimonials, inmates assert that the surprisingly good-tasting food led them to feel better, have greater energy, increased stamina and reduced problems with acne. Indeed the effectiveness of a vegan vegetarian diet in rehabilitation has been scientifically validated.

Quote:M E A T

Now, It’s Not Personal!
But like it or not, meat-eating is becoming a problem for everyone on the planet.

...as environmental science has advanced, it has become apparent that the human appetite for animal flesh is a driving force behind virtually every major category of environmental damage now threatening the human future—deforestation, erosion, fresh water scarcity, air and water pollution, climate change, biodiversity loss, social injustice, the destabilization of communities, and the spread of disease.

How did such a seemingly small matter of individual consumption move so rapidly from the margins of discussion about sustainability to the center? To begin with, per-capita meat consumption has more than doubled in the past half-century, even as global population has continued to increase. As a result, the overall demand for meat has increased five-fold. That, in turn, has put escalating pressure on the availability of water, land, feed, fertilizer, fuel, waste disposal capacity, and most of the other limited resources of the planet.

To provide an overview of just how central a challenge this once marginal issue has become, we decided to survey the relevance of meat-eating to each of the major categories of environmental impact that have conventionally been regarded as critical to the sustainability of civilization. A brief summary observation for each category is accompanied by quotes from a range of prominent observers, some of whom offer suggestions about how this difficult subject—not everyone who likes pork chops or ribs is going to switch to tofu without a fight—can be addressed.

...

Albert Einstein, who was better known for his physics and math than for his interest in the living world, once said:
“Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.” We don’t think he was just talking about nutrition. Notice that in this article we haven’t said much at all about the role of meat in nutrition, even though there’s a lot more to talk about than heart disease. Nor have we gone into the ethics of vegetarianism, or of animal rights. The purpose of those omissions is not to brush off those concerns, but to point out that on ecological and economic grounds alone, meat-eating is now a looming problem for humankind. You don’t have to have any conscience at all to know that the age of heavy meat-eating will soon be over as surely as will the age of oil...

(10-20-2014, 01:21 PM)Unbound Wrote: In regards to this issue, and how would your view accommodate the diversity of humans?

(10-20-2014, 04:03 PM)Matt1 Wrote: Is it difficult to go from veggie to vegan and do you need to take supplements? what are the benefits of doing so.

(10-20-2014, 07:31 PM)Jade Wrote: As an anecdote, my mother in law has been a vegetarian for over half her life (20+ years), and she just recently had gastric bypass surgery. Quitting just meat isn't always good enough, even if you do it for your health. Really though if you can cut out MOST of your dairy, that's doing a lot. People get caught up too much in labels. I recently saw an interview with Bill Clinton, who is a vegan, but he said he eats either 1 omelette or a wild caught salmon filet once a week because it helps him feel like he's getting enough protein. There were some people going nuts saying "HE'S NOT A VEGAN!!!!!" It's not about asceticism. It's about making conscious decisions. When I first went "vegan", I told myself that I wasn't never going to have cheese again, or even maybe meat once in a great while. I've had sushi twice and have had little bits of dairy here and there. If you're torturing yourself, you're doing it wrong.

(10-20-2014, 07:44 PM)Monica Wrote: If all the meat-eaters did what you and Clinton are doing, the world would be a better place (and a lot healthier too).

(10-20-2014, 09:22 PM)ScottK Wrote:

(10-20-2014, 07:44 PM)Monica Wrote: If all the meat-eaters did what you and Clinton are doing, the world would be a better place (and a lot healthier too).

Oy - Bill Clinton is about as STS as they come..

(10-20-2014, 09:22 PM)ScottK Wrote: As I see it, the only way we could completely remedy the situation of what we eat is if we had food synthesizers - otherwise, on this planet, we are stuck with the issue of destroying life so that we may eat regardless of what we eat.

That's my opinion - that and $1.99 will get you a cup of coffee..

(10-20-2014, 09:22 PM)ScottK Wrote: I had the realization while I was cooking a couple of weeks ago that regardless of what we do, when we eat, we have the free will choice to choose which 2nd density entity we wish to consume - and we are pretty much forced into consuming an entity with said level of consciousness.

Ever since listening to an interview on Coast to Coast with Gerald Epling a few years ago, I've kind of equated Animal and Plant consciousness..

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2008/03/18

My belief became that it was important to maintain a positive, light attitude because all other consciousnesses around me were effected by me, regardless of whether those entities are plants or animals. We just don't understand the consciousness of plants because they aren't like us.

(10-18-2014, 09:06 AM)Icaro Wrote: I'm working on becoming a vegetarian. I've personally made the choice that if it's not something I could do, I don't think I should consume meat.

Having said that, I've come to realize that there are many things I don't want to do but survive because others do them for me. Farming is hard, which I don't have the patience for (beyond a large garden) but plenty of people make that sacrifice so I can eat. Carpentry and being on your knees all day is something I could never ever do, but I'm glad others build that foundation. Then there's something like roofing, one of the most back breaking jobs that exists, and I'm thankful for the roof over my head. And of course I'm wearing slave-made clothes, even though I'd rather not be.

So we give and take..we're all selfish and use each other but we don't have to look at it that way. It's functioning as a unit. In one of Sandor Katz's books he says he's "..thankful for those who have the courage to slaughter." I think that's a nice way of putting it..and I'm sure he's referring to humanely raised animals.

(10-20-2014, 09:22 PM)ScottK Wrote: Oy - Bill Clinton is about as STS as they come..

(10-21-2014, 09:11 AM)Monica Wrote:

(10-20-2014, 09:22 PM)ScottK Wrote: Oy - Bill Clinton is about as STS as they come..

And yet, here are all these self-professed STOs, even Wanderers, defending their practice of eating sentient creatures. Go figure.

(10-21-2014, 07:54 AM)Shemaya Wrote: I think that having veganism as a moral standard right now is jumping the evolutionary tide.

(10-21-2014, 07:54 AM)Shemaya Wrote: People will have to transition more gently to reprogram our DNA and genetics.

(10-21-2014, 07:54 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Humans have been eating meat for a long time, have been sustained by eating meat; it's not going to be fast change- over.

(10-21-2014, 07:54 AM)Shemaya Wrote: Many people who have tried veganism have failed, what are they supposed to do, beat themselves up over it?

(10-21-2014, 07:54 AM)Shemaya Wrote: I think that knowing your farmer, buying local harvest is a really important way to change the system. Anything that we can do economically to avoid supporting the corporate and profit driven food system helps.

(10-21-2014, 07:54 AM)Shemaya Wrote: When you say we use each other, I see it more as being interdependent, we are one Body. We support one another, ideally. Equal exchange and give and take. Some may give more and others less, but as a unit , it works out.

That is how it is with my hens. I feed and nourish them, and they provide me food. Equal exchange, symbiosis. They are cute and funny creatures. When I reach in for the eggs, when a hen is sitting on them, she just gently gets up and makes her eggs available to me. Chickens were bred for this very purpose and have nourished humans for a very long time.

Being thankful for what sustains us is a good way to go, I agree with Katz on that one.

(10-21-2014, 11:28 AM)Icaro Wrote: And Monica, since you agree that one realistic goal is for meat eaters to drastically cut meat consumption, those who have the courage to slaughter (humanely raised/slaughtered) can then be seen as filling a necessary role, and there is no need to demonize them..because eating meat just isn't going to disappear anytime soon.

(10-21-2014, 11:28 AM)Icaro Wrote: People don't consider the value of new viewpoints if they're made to feel bad about themselves (meat eaters in general).

(10-21-2014, 11:28 AM)Icaro Wrote: We should then be thankful for those who do the things we're not able to do..positive interpretation, positive energy sent.

(10-21-2014, 11:28 AM)Icaro Wrote: But I feel I may have overstepped my boundaries in offering that..my apologies.

(10-21-2014, 11:28 AM)Icaro Wrote: To move forward, we have to learn how to respect each other and each other's needs, recognizing that we're all on different parts of the path in our journey.