(10-14-2014, 12:31 AM)Ashim Wrote: To truely evolve one must recognise and integrate the dark aspects of ones nature.

(10-14-2014, 12:31 AM)Ashim Wrote: I am obviously not recommending that you go out and start culling, rather that the 'killer' is simply acknowledged.

(10-14-2014, 12:31 AM)Ashim Wrote: Maybe that's why I sense so much 'hate' in the words of many who encourage the vegan/veggie lifestyle.

(10-14-2014, 12:31 AM)Ashim Wrote: To truely evolve one must recognise and integrate the dark aspects of ones nature.

(10-14-2014, 12:31 AM)Ashim Wrote: I am obviously not recommending that you go out and start culling, rather that the 'killer' is simply acknowledged.
Maybe that's why I sense so much 'hate' in the words of many who encourage the vegan/veggie lifestyle.

(10-14-2014, 01:02 PM)Unbound Wrote: What are those ramifications exactly?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Okay, so what is the bad thing about ingesting those things? What do you mean by "weighed down"? How does your body, mind and spirit take on that suffering or process that energy?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Are you saying we are eating their souls?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: How is that different from eating plants?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Also why is predator/prey behaviour "lesser" than whatever behaviour you apparently exhibit by ingesting only plants?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: I would add that just because "spiritual leaders and gurus" do something doesn't in any way mean it is the "right" thing to do.

(10-14-2014, 08:27 PM)Monica Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Okay, so what is the bad thing about ingesting those things? What do you mean by "weighed down"? How does your body, mind and spirit take on that suffering or process that energy?

Those questions are all from the perspective of 'me.'

Come to think of it, most of the comments from the meat-eaters have all been from the perspective of 'me.' Here are some examples of the recurring themes:

I like the taste of meat
I can just bless the meat and it won't bother me.
How will eating meat affect me?
You are trying to control me.
I eat meat and you can't stop me.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Are you saying we are eating their souls?

No, their souls live on...traumatized.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: How is that different from eating plants?

Tear some leaves off a lettuce plants.

Tear a leg off a cow with your bare hands and teeth only.

Compare.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Also why is predator/prey behaviour "lesser" than whatever behaviour you apparently exhibit by ingesting only plants?

What do you think of humans' predatory behavior? Is it ok for a human to prey upon a smaller, weaker human? Is it ok to hurt a child, for example?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: I would add that just because "spiritual leaders and gurus" do something doesn't in any way mean it is the "right" thing to do.

I would agree in the case of phony religious leaders, but genuine spiritual leaders tend to teach love, peace, forgiveness, nonviolence and compassion. These same themes recur again and again, in all the higher spiritual teachings, including the Law of One. That is significant.

(10-15-2014, 02:05 AM)Folk-love Wrote: Why did the Logos design the world like this in the first place? By it's very nature the world seems unjust and quite cruel. It seems to breed bellicosity and aggression. Why is the world the way that it is?

(10-15-2014, 03:30 AM)Unbound Wrote: Apparently to make it more likely that entities will form a bias towards service to self or service to others. It is supposed to accelerate or catalyze the making of the choice of third density. This is so we are able to continue evolving and progress rather than being perpetually stuck in 3D until so many lives, over and over, that we finally form a bias. This enables us to leave 3D much faster, and while it is indeed much more intense, vivid and difficult, it allows us to make the 3D choice without taking a huge number of lives.

Quote:I would agree in the case of phony religious leaders, but genuine spiritual leaders tend to teach love, peace, forgiveness, nonviolence and compassion. These same themes recur again and again, in all the higher spiritual teachings, including the Law of One. That is significant.

(10-15-2014, 03:51 AM)Folk-love Wrote: Does the Creator need our suffering? What is wrong with not wanting to suffer anymore? It just seems that for as long as you are here in 3d you are subject to the law of impermanence. Each experience must be balanced by its opposite. Ehh I'm just venting. Am quite fed up along with feelings of guilt for not seeing life as a gift but a burden. Well I've detailed this thread enough.

(10-15-2014, 04:13 AM)Unbound Wrote:

(10-15-2014, 03:51 AM)Folk-love Wrote: Does the Creator need our suffering? What is wrong with not wanting to suffer anymore? It just seems that for as long as you are here in 3d you are subject to the law of impermanence. Each experience must be balanced by its opposite. Ehh I'm just venting. Am quite fed up along with feelings of guilt for not seeing life as a gift but a burden. Well I've detailed this thread enough.

The Creator doesn't need or not need anything. Everything is the experience of the Creator. The question is what part of the Creator's experience are you engaged in? I, personally, choose not to dwell on or in suffering. Yes, suffering exists, but so does anything and everything else.

Apparently the veiling causes negative interpretations to be more alluring or drawing to the mind.

---

(Also, that is not in negligence of the suffering that exists, but I choose not to add myself to the pool of suffering.)

(10-15-2014, 04:30 AM)Folk-love Wrote:

(10-15-2014, 04:13 AM)Unbound Wrote:

(10-15-2014, 03:51 AM)Folk-love Wrote: Does the Creator need our suffering? What is wrong with not wanting to suffer anymore? It just seems that for as long as you are here in 3d you are subject to the law of impermanence. Each experience must be balanced by its opposite. Ehh I'm just venting. Am quite fed up along with feelings of guilt for not seeing life as a gift but a burden. Well I've detailed this thread enough.

The Creator doesn't need or not need anything. Everything is the experience of the Creator. The question is what part of the Creator's experience are you engaged in? I, personally, choose not to dwell on or in suffering. Yes, suffering exists, but so does anything and everything else.

Apparently the veiling causes negative interpretations to be more alluring or drawing to the mind.

---

(Also, that is not in negligence of the suffering that exists, but I choose not to add myself to the pool of suffering.)

How? I prefer not to suffer but even happiness isn't all that alluring to me either. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry for myself but I don't even want to exist.

Quote:78.21 ▶ Questioner: You stated previously that The Choice that is made in this density, third density, is the axis upon which the creation turns. Could you expand on your reason for making that statement?

Ra: I am Ra. This is a statement of the nature of creation as we speak to you.

78.22 ▶ Questioner: I did not understand that. Could you say that in a different way?

Ra: I am Ra. As you have noted, the creation of which your Logos is a part is a protean entity which grows and learns upon a macrocosmic scale. The Logos is not a part of time. All that is learned from experience in an octave is, therefore, the harvest of that Logos and is further the nature of that Logos.

The original Logos’s experience was, viewed in space/time, small; Its experience now, more. Therefore we say, as we now speak to you at this space/time, the nature of creation is as we have described. This does not deny the process by which this nature has been achieved but merely ratifies the product.

...

78.24 ▶ Questioner: This is a hard question just to ask, but what is the function or what is the value experientially of the formation of positive and negative social memory complexes, of the separation of the polarities at that point rather than the allowing for the mixing of mind/body/spirit complexes of opposite polarity at the higher densities?

Ra: I am Ra. The purpose of polarity is to develop the potential to do work. This is the great characteristic of those, shall we say, experiments which have evolved since the concept of The Choice was appreciated. Work is done far more efficiently and with greater purity, intensity, and variety by the voluntary searching of mind/body/spirit complexes for the lessons of third and fourth densities. The action of fifth density is, viewed in space/time, the same with or without polarity. However, viewed in time/space, the experiences of wisdom are greatly enlarged and deepened due, again, to the voluntary nature of polarized mind/body/spirit action.

78.25 ▶ Questioner: Then you are saying as a result of the polarization in consciousness that has occurred later in the galactic evolution, that the experiences are much more, shall I say, profound or deeper along the two paths. Are these experiences independent of the other path or must there be action across the potentiated difference between the positive and negative polarity, or is it possible to have this experience simply because of the single polarity? This is difficult to ask.

Ra: I am Ra. We would agree. We shall attempt to pluck the gist of your query from the surrounding verbiage.

The fourth and fifth densities are quite independent, the positive polarity functioning with no need of negative and vice-versa. It is to be noted that in attempting to sway third-density mind/body/spirit complexes in choosing polarity there evolves a good bit of interaction between the two polarities. In sixth density, the density of unity, the positive and negative paths must needs take in each other for all now must be seen as love/light and light/love. This is not difficult for the positive polarity, which sends love and light to all other-selves. It is difficult enough for service-to-self polarized entities that at some point the negative polarity is abandoned.

Quote:Herb-food for man cultivateth the negative condition; flesh-food for man increaseth the positive: Which is to say, flesh-food carrieth man away from prophecy; away from spirituality. A nation of meat-eaters will always culminate in disbelievers in spirituality; and they become addicted to corporeal passions. Such men can not understand; to them the world is vanity and vexation, if poor; or, if rich, a place to revel in for lust's sake.

Quote:23. Oan (Panic). Faith in man only. Sign, two men leaning against each other. Persons who have risen in intelligence, but not in Es. Faith in man only. One who believes man is the highest of all things in the world. One who believes there is no person or thing of personality but man. They being Oans indulged in ____, although they were men only, saying: There is none above us to see us or to command (Fus). They said: Shall I not indulge in whatsoever I choose, being an Oan? (Chine.) Onan, one whose philosophy is in his own conceit; an indulgence (Kii). I do solemnly swear before this order, Oan, that I will never pray to, nor ejaculate to, nor of, nor for any person, save man; and especially not to the Gods nor Lords of heaven, nor to the Unknown, and Imperishable. (Rite of Sodom.) Ho'an, that that leads to Ugh'sa, particularly lust. The impulse of the flesh they called the highest, M'oa (Gau). They threw aside their clothes, going naked like the A'su of old, saying: Is not all indulgence my heritage? (Miac.) They fell from industry and decency, saying: We shall have no forms nor rites, being free. And they became the prey of spirits of idleness and lust, who feast on sinful mortals (Egypt). Spirits of lust came to the Onans and reclothed themselves in mortal forms and indulged in lust with them, and Moses forbade them from coming amongst his people. (Aribania.) The Cow'ans said: Let us go stealthily to the tent of Moses and his priests and learn the secret of his spirit power. The Cow'ans said: Why shall man follow Moses? Are not the spirits who come to us as good as his? (Akia.) Yo'anyi said: If I love meat I will eat meat; if I love strong drink I will have strong drink; if I love sexual indulgence then will I have sexual indulgence. Who can restrain me? Are not my desires well created? I should not deny them? (Vede.) And the druks came upon the Yo'anyi, for their philosophy had divided them amongst themselves, one against another, and their progeny became Tur'anyi (Turanian).

Quote:28. O man of the earth, consider what thou puttest into thy mouth, for the atmosphere thereof is the food of thy spirit. And the habit thereof will be entailed on thy spirit for a long season after thy mortal death.
29. If thou hast been a gross feeder on flesh, thy spirit will seek to linger in the atmosphere of gross feeders still dwelling on the earth. The slaughter-house and the cook-house and the eating-house shall be the places of thy spirit's resort.
30. And thy spirit shall feed therein and thereon; and thy companions shall be millions and millions of drujas; like vultures that flock to a dead carcass, and thou can not away; like a loadstone, are these haunts to the spirits of darkness.
31. O man, I have heard thee, in thy fullness, say: I must have my flesh-food; I must have my wine and beer and tobacco and opium.
32. I say unto thee, if thou hast not strength in this day, neither shalt thou have strength tomorrow. What strength shall thou gain by the loss of thy corporeal body?
33. Consider thy corporeal body as a ship, in which thy spirit is sailing across a wide sea of water. Better that thy spirit learn to acquire strength whilst it hath a corporeal body to ride in. After death, it floateth in the direction thou hast shaped it. Neither hast thou power to go against the current.
34. Remember, O man, these are the lessons of thy Creator, which he gave unto thee, to learn to master the elements of thy surrounding.

(10-15-2014, 11:53 AM)seven Wrote: I don't know how many of you are acquainted with Oahspe, but here's some passages from the scripture that could be of interest:

Quote:28. O man of the earth, consider what thou puttest into thy mouth, for the atmosphere thereof is the food of thy spirit. And the habit thereof will be entailed on thy spirit for a long season after thy mortal death.
29. If thou hast been a gross feeder on flesh, thy spirit will seek to linger in the atmosphere of gross feeders still dwelling on the earth. The slaughter-house and the cook-house and the eating-house shall be the places of thy spirit's resort.
30. And thy spirit shall feed therein and thereon; and thy companions shall be millions and millions of drujas; like vultures that flock to a dead carcass, and thou can not away; like a loadstone, are these haunts to the spirits of darkness.
31. O man, I have heard thee, in thy fullness, say: I must have my flesh-food; I must have my wine and beer and tobacco and opium.
32. I say unto thee, if thou hast not strength in this day, neither shalt thou have strength tomorrow. What strength shall thou gain by the loss of thy corporeal body?
33. Consider thy corporeal body as a ship, in which thy spirit is sailing across a wide sea of water. Better that thy spirit learn to acquire strength whilst it hath a corporeal body to ride in. After death, it floateth in the direction thou hast shaped it. Neither hast thou power to go against the current.
34. Remember, O man, these are the lessons of thy Creator, which he gave unto thee, to learn to master the elements of thy surrounding.

Personally though: I try to keep my diet simple, as I believe in simplifying things. I see food as colors. Meat is a complex color, brown/gray, composed of different materials. A vegan diet has a broader palette and allows you to gain a deeper understanding of bodily constructs.

Quote:Now, how shall an entity whose consciousness is that of pure love feed its body? We notice that you focus upon meat and the eating of it as the arena of choice. And before we address that question we would note that not only the animals but the plants also are growing within the creation of the Father, blooming and dying at a rhythm of their own. In a very real way, it is as much of an offense, one may say, to pluck a bean or dig a potato from the ground as it is to slaughter an animal, for you have interrupted the cycle of its life and its dancing with the Creator as you do so. But to focus upon this is to digress from your query. And so we would focus upon the slaughter of animals and the responsibility that an entity has if he chooses to eat meat.

One valid choice that many of those who have awakened have made is not to eat meat and to find ways to furnish the body with the protein that meat offers by eating other substances, such as legumes, which contain protein. [1]

Another choice that an awakened entity has, as the questioner said, is to move to the purchase only of meats that have been humanely slaughtered. There are two sources of such meats that are generally available to entities within a reasonable amount of distance from where they live. One is to seek out a kosher store [2] which sells meat, knowing that the priests of that religion have treated animals well and have slaughtered them in a sacred ritual which is taken most seriously by those priests.

The other is to find a biodynamic source where the same feeling of sacredness surrounds the appreciation of mammals while they live and the humane slaughter of them when it is time for them to feed their humans.

And as the one known as J said, barring those choices, there is always the metaphysically correct choice of relating to the animal in that timeless condition which is called “metaphysical time” wherein all things occur simultaneously, so that you are able to contact any animal, before you eat it, no matter how abused or how slaughtered. And as you contact this animal, you express your love of this animal and your appreciation for all that the animal has gone through in order to give you its energy, its consciousness, such as it is, and its love, which is very real. So, in praise, prayer and thanksgiving you heal the division between you and the meat and the animal from which that meat came.

And as you do this to your meat, dancing with the meat, becoming one with the meat, you are in effect lifting that energy to the infinite Creator, blessing it and healing all that has gone before, for the animal and for you.

Indeed, we would note that it is not only the eating of meat, but every single action undertaken by you, no matter how humble or small, that has the capability and potentiality of becoming sacred, so that you at all times are giving thanks, offering praise, and opening to the experiences that have been given to you to walk in.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Okay, so what is the bad thing about ingesting those things? What do you mean by "weighed down"? How does your body, mind and spirit take on that suffering or process that energy?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Are you saying we are eating their souls? How is that different from eating plants?

---

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Also why is predator/prey behaviour "lesser" than whatever behaviour you apparently exhibit by ingesting only plants?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: I would add that just because "spiritual leaders and gurus" do something doesn't in any way mean it is the "right" thing to do.

(10-15-2014, 04:03 AM)Ashim Wrote:

Quote:I would agree in the case of phony religious leaders, but genuine spiritual leaders tend to teach love, peace, forgiveness, nonviolence and compassion. These same themes recur again and again, in all the higher spiritual teachings, including the Law of One. That is significant.

So what you are saying is that a genuine spiritual leader of the negative polarity can not exist?

The Law of One allows this by definition.

Why does 'geniune' not include the dark?

Quote:In a very real way, it is as much of an offense, one may say, to pluck a bean or dig a potato from the ground as it is to slaughter an animal, for you have interrupted the cycle of its life and its dancing with the Creator as you do so.

(10-15-2014, 01:13 PM)Diana Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Okay, so what is the bad thing about ingesting those things? What do you mean by "weighed down"? How does your body, mind and spirit take on that suffering or process that energy?

First, I'm not saying anything is bad. "Good" and "bad" are relative and subjective terms. What I am saying is that ingesting meat is not conducive to spiritual seeking (if that seeking is STO in nature—STS in nature such as black magic or voodoo feeds off taking life sometimes).

On a purely physiological level, when one consumes meat from an animal, one consumes the stress hormones (like cortisol) released in the animal's body when the animal was in fear and pain—fight-or-flight—before and during the slaughter. Also, the lifetime of stress levels would have kept the animal releasing protein chains of "discontented" feelings rather than beta-endorphins released from "contentedness."

One consumes these hormones and protein chains along with the meat. Fear, pain, terror, discontent are represented in these body chemicals.
By ingesting them, one adds to one's own store of these things. Those who are trying to reach peaceful, calm, balanced states of being may have a difficult enough time simply dealing with their own fears etc. Add the daily consumption of meat, and they are "weighing themselves down" with more fear to deal with.

This would be true on the physical and energetic levels. Dr. Emoto proved how even a written word could affect the matrix of water cells.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Are you saying we are eating their souls? How is that different from eating plants?

---

No I'm not say we are eating their souls. And there is so much difference between eating animals and plants I am flummoxed as to how to continue to explain it. I refer you to Jade's take on this several posts back, which I reposted as a good explanation of this difference.

In my mind, this world we live in now is no more of an illusion than anything else. This is as real as everything. Real, illusion, who cares? That's an academic question, and frankly rhetorical, because we don't really know s**t about it—just speculation.

Regardless of whether you agree with my working theory, the fact remains that this existence is where this part of our consciousnesses are, right now, in this linear time construct. It can't be denied (well, it can be as you or anyone wishes, but I am talking objectively) that we would then deal with this world. People may want to deny this existence and say we are just light bodies and our physical bodies mean nothing, but I personally think this thinking is irresponsible, lazy, and cowardly. It's hard to be here, but imagining none of it matters is sheer folly to me.

In this 3D world, we KNOW the animals suffer. Many say plants do too. I think this is reasonable. However, in 3D, plants are designed to propagate through their fruits and seeds being eaten. They MAKE food. Compare that to the slaughterhouse. The difference between takng animal life and plant life, here, in 3D, where our consciousnesses are awake and functioning, is obviously different.

So, I am here now, at least some part of me. This is what I'm dealing with now. I don't deny it. I may have chosen it. I am endeavoring to reach my potential here.

Causing harm here, when one is aware of it, and it's not necessary, may serve the STS being. I have no judgments about that, only sadness for the recipients of the harm.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Also why is predator/prey behaviour "lesser" than whatever behaviour you apparently exhibit by ingesting only plants?

Predator/prey behavior is exhibited naturally in the animal kingdom. So it is 2D natural behavior. Without individuation, and then learning cause and effect, leading to compassion (or in Ra terms, choosing between STO and STS), predator/prey behavior is about survival. It is a smaller scope of awareness. In order to expand awareness, consciousness must become aware of more and greater views of existence.

The idea, to me, is to evolve. I personally want to evolve in an STO way. I don't want to take the life of an animal who obviously doesn't want to be killed and eaten. On the other hand, the plant kingdom is offering up their seeds and fruit, which benefits them, as food. Taking the food from plants removes me from predator/prey. I have now evolved a little further away from the animal kingdom toward the light being I imagine I could be at some point. (This is not to say I think the animal kingdom is lesser than the human kingdom.)

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: I would add that just because "spiritual leaders and gurus" do something doesn't in any way mean it is the "right" thing to do.

I agree. I always promote free thinking. And just as "good and bad" are relative and subjective, so are "right and wrong." However, it's worth looking at the numbers of spiritual leaders who promote abstaining fro meat. Why would this concept be so ubiquitous?

(10-15-2014, 03:05 AM)Unbound Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 08:27 PM)Monica Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Okay, so what is the bad thing about ingesting those things? What do you mean by "weighed down"? How does your body, mind and spirit take on that suffering or process that energy?

Those questions are all from the perspective of 'me.'

Come to think of it, most of the comments from the meat-eaters have all been from the perspective of 'me.' Here are some examples of the recurring themes:

I like the taste of meat
I can just bless the meat and it won't bother me.
How will eating meat affect me?
You are trying to control me.
I eat meat and you can't stop me.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Are you saying we are eating their souls?

No, their souls live on...traumatized.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: How is that different from eating plants?

Tear some leaves off a lettuce plants.

Tear a leg off a cow with your bare hands and teeth only.

Compare.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Also why is predator/prey behaviour "lesser" than whatever behaviour you apparently exhibit by ingesting only plants?

What do you think of humans' predatory behavior? Is it ok for a human to prey upon a smaller, weaker human? Is it ok to hurt a child, for example?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: I would add that just because "spiritual leaders and gurus" do something doesn't in any way mean it is the "right" thing to do.

I would agree in the case of phony religious leaders, but genuine spiritual leaders tend to teach love, peace, forgiveness, nonviolence and compassion. These same themes recur again and again, in all the higher spiritual teachings, including the Law of One. That is significant.

Holy hyperbole, no offense, but I don't have any desire to respond to you.

(10-15-2014, 03:05 AM)Unbound Wrote: I know you're just trying to make a point, but you come across so fanatical and ridiculous that I feel like I'm hitting my head against a wall with every response.

(10-15-2014, 03:05 AM)Unbound Wrote: Thanks, but no thanks, we do not get anywhere discussing these particular things, I am opting to discuss with others instead. I am well aware of your perspective and it does not need to be reiterated to me at this point in time.

(10-15-2014, 02:05 AM)Folk-love Wrote: Why did the Logos design the world like this in the first place? By it's very nature the world seems unjust and quite cruel. It seems to breed bellicosity and aggression. Why is the world the way that it is?

(10-15-2014, 02:06 PM)Diana Wrote: Taken from the Q'uo quote Spaced posted:

Quote:In a very real way, it is as much of an offense, one may say, to pluck a bean or dig a potato from the ground as it is to slaughter an animal, for you have interrupted the cycle of its life and its dancing with the Creator as you do so.

Strictly speaking, when looking at one aspect of this statement and one only, it is true. If the potato plant just lives, produces fruit, and the fruits die in the ground, and then the plant dies, the plant has been left to its own natural cycle. But, has anyone harvested a potato? I have. It's part of the root system and you can dig out a potato and the plant keeps producing and living.

In my opinion, Q'uo's statement is misleading and frankly ridiculous, and I don't agree with it. Some may revere any channeled messages thinking the information is somehow better than our own. It's not that the sentiments in the whole quote, and session, were not of value. But to say these things—slaughtered animals and plucked beans—are the same is simply not true.

The life cycle of a plant is HEPED by taking it's fruit or seed. Even bees help this process by spreading the pollen. Without bees, and humans have interrupted that life cycle to a dangerous point, the plants will disappear. (Would it make sense to just destroy everything but wish it love and transmute the suffering after? Why not just not destroy and still wish it love?) Plants are able to live on and have children because an ambulatory being takes the food they are offering. It's symbiosis—win-win. You cannot take a part of an animal and the animal lives or thrives—try cutting off a leg.

To say it's the same is irresponsible in my opinion. Humans can be easily lead.

(10-15-2014, 02:08 PM)Monica Wrote:

(10-15-2014, 03:05 AM)Unbound Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 08:27 PM)Monica Wrote:

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Okay, so what is the bad thing about ingesting those things? What do you mean by "weighed down"? How does your body, mind and spirit take on that suffering or process that energy?

Those questions are all from the perspective of 'me.'

Come to think of it, most of the comments from the meat-eaters have all been from the perspective of 'me.' Here are some examples of the recurring themes:

I like the taste of meat
I can just bless the meat and it won't bother me.
How will eating meat affect me?
You are trying to control me.
I eat meat and you can't stop me.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Are you saying we are eating their souls?

No, their souls live on...traumatized.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: How is that different from eating plants?

Tear some leaves off a lettuce plants.

Tear a leg off a cow with your bare hands and teeth only.

Compare.

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: Also why is predator/prey behaviour "lesser" than whatever behaviour you apparently exhibit by ingesting only plants?

What do you think of humans' predatory behavior? Is it ok for a human to prey upon a smaller, weaker human? Is it ok to hurt a child, for example?

(10-14-2014, 02:32 PM)Unbound Wrote: I would add that just because "spiritual leaders and gurus" do something doesn't in any way mean it is the "right" thing to do.

I would agree in the case of phony religious leaders, but genuine spiritual leaders tend to teach love, peace, forgiveness, nonviolence and compassion. These same themes recur again and again, in all the higher spiritual teachings, including the Law of One. That is significant.

Holy hyperbole, no offense, but I don't have any desire to respond to you.

As you wish!

(10-15-2014, 03:05 AM)Unbound Wrote: I know you're just trying to make a point, but you come across so fanatical and ridiculous that I feel like I'm hitting my head against a wall with every response.

Oh, you feel that too?

Do I seem fanatical because I keep repeating the same thing over and over? Here is why I do that:

Because, to me, understanding that animals suffer is just soooooooo basic. Knowingly, unnecessarily contributing to cruelty is NOT in alignment with the STO path. That is just sooooooo basic.

To say "oh but I like meat" is just like saying "oh but I like hurting that child." It is based on mememememe and completely disregards the victim.

STO means Service to OTHERS. It's about OTHERS.

Hurting others isn't STO.

It's very simple, and when otherwise intelligent people still don't get that, then yeah, I try to dumb it down...make it simple to understand, and apparently you perceive that as fanatical.

There are only so many ways we can explain this. I think we've pretty much exhausted those ways.

If, after all that, you still honestly don't see a difference between tearing apart a cow and harvesting some lettuce, then there really isn't any point to talking about this. I don't intend that as judgment towards you so please don't take it that way. It simply is what it is. If you don't think the 'other' entity's feelings are important, but only your preference for 'taste' is what matters, or you don't feel compassion for them, or you don't think it matters whether one chooses STO or STS, then you are entitled to your choices. But I leave my comments because others might benefit from the discussion.

(10-15-2014, 03:05 AM)Unbound Wrote: Thanks, but no thanks, we do not get anywhere discussing these particular things, I am opting to discuss with others instead. I am well aware of your perspective and it does not need to be reiterated to me at this point in time.

Agreed! And the same to you!

(10-15-2014, 02:05 AM)Folk-love Wrote: Why did the Logos design the world like this in the first place? By it's very nature the world seems unjust and quite cruel. It seems to breed bellicosity and aggression. Why is the world the way that it is?

Good question. I intend to complain loudly when I get a chance to talk to the Logos. Their 'experiment' totally sucks, in my opinion. Would you like to join me?